Wildlife photographer, conservationist, and Safari Girl Lisa Roberti on conservation, photography, and how to plan your best safari

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Lisa Roberti, the Safari Girl, has been traveling to wildlife-rich areas around the world for over 27 years. While not a professional photographer, her goal is to use her photographs and experiences about her travels to encourage others to travel so that together, we can preserve the wild places for generations to come.

Lisa has a wildlife-themed online store, is currently writing her first book, “Safari Tales” and has a self-study course on how to plan your safari to get the trip of a lifetime.

Connect with Lisa

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lisamroberti/

See some of Lisa’s amazing photos below.

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] Lisa Roberti: How often do we just stop and breathe and just be in the moment and play watching lion Cubs playing it. It’s just fascinating. They’re just, they’re totally in the moment. Just like children.

[00:00:17] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I’m your host. Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.

[00:00:38] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do some of my deepest work because you’re a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word, and now let’s get to the show.[00:01:00]

[00:01:02] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I am super happy that you’re here and I’m also incredibly honored and thrilled and happy to share with you. This week’s guest. She is fabulous. Lisa birdie, the safari girl has been traveling to wildlife rich areas around the world for over 27 years while not a professional photographer.

[00:01:24] Her goal is to use her photographs and experiences about her travels to encourage others to travel so that together we can preserve the wild places for generations to come. Lisa has a wildlife themed online store and is currently writing her first book called safari tales. I can’t wait to read it. She also has a self study course on how to plan your safari to get the trip of a lifetime.

[00:01:44] Lisa, I’m so grateful that you’re here. Thanks so much for being.

[00:01:48] Lisa Roberti: Izolda thank you so much for having me. It’s such an honor to be on your show. Thank you.

[00:01:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, it’s my pleasure. I’m first of all, I, I love ever since somebody gave me, [00:02:00] uh, my parents gave me a codec extra one for my 12th birthday. I have been an avid photographer and I love taking all sorts of photos.

[00:02:08] And I’m wondering for you what got you started in photography and, and having photography be your way of getting the message out your message out and the message for animals and the natural model places.

[00:02:23] Lisa Roberti: So when I was really young, I was about fifth grade. I’ve always had a passion for animals. I’ve always loved animals.

[00:02:30] And the camera was just a way to get closer, to like really watch and see and look at there, look at behavior and then also to share it with people. You know, you see, you could tell stories, but they say a picture’s worth a thousand words and video also. Um, and it’s just, it was just really my way to get closer and to experience.

[00:02:54] And remember with detail, everything that I got to experience with

[00:02:58] Izolda Trakhtenberg: animals. That’s so [00:03:00] amazing. I love that you said that it was a way to experience the animals and, and yet there’s this wonderful, uh, sort of quote or meme that says take only photographs, leave only footprints. So the experience doesn’t sound like it is diminished at all.

[00:03:16] If you don’t have any other contact with the animals other than being the photographer.

[00:03:22] Lisa Roberti: Oh, I’m so glad you said that, um, wildlife photographers can, can really get a bad name. There’s so many out there that. Their main goal is the photograph. Whereas my main goal is the two record to witness and record natural behaviors of the animals.

[00:03:46] Um, you see a lot of photographers out there not, and I’m glad to say it’s not the majority, but there’s a few that they will really harass the animal in order to get quote unquote, the picture. They want to get a [00:04:00] reaction. They want to get whatever. And to me, that’s, um, that’s just harassment and it’s not good clean wildlife photography.

[00:04:08] I am there to witness and report. I’m there to see natural behavior. Like what is their life without humans in the way. And to me, that is, what’s so beautiful and there’s so much to learn from animals, um, and, and watching their behavior and just in, in, in watching them interact with, with other species and within their own species.

[00:04:30] It’s, it’s just, it’s amazing

[00:04:32] Izolda Trakhtenberg: to watch it. Well, I appreciate you saying that. And that brings me to a question. What have you learned? You say there’s so much to learn. I agree with you. I’m I’m sort of, I feel a little bit like I’m going to be like, yes, yes, yes. This whole, this whole chat. And yet you’ve, you’ve got obviously a lot more experience than I do photographing wildlife in the wild.

[00:04:56] What, what has been the biggest lesson that you’ve [00:05:00] learned from observing and from having those experiences with animals in the wild?

[00:05:07] Lisa Roberti: So I, the biggest experience that’s, that’s a hard one. I would say that. For me, observing them, you see that they all have personalities. Like we, we tend to put them in a bubble, right?

[00:05:22] This is lion behavior. This is elephant behavior. This is, you know, but each animal has its own unique personality and they all have stories. I’ve been privileged to go back to the same locations, time and time again, where I’ve been able to see the animals and watch them grow up, if you will, and, and know them by their human, you know, English names.

[00:05:44] And, um, and it’s just, it’s just fascinating to see them have their own personalities living in the moment. Um, you see the tenderness, you see the fierceness, you see them, [00:06:00] um, just being raw and it’s, it’s such a reminder. We w in our lives as human beings, we’re, you know, we have the cell phone being in and we have so much going on and.

[00:06:11] How often do we just stop and breathe and just be in the moment and play, or, you know, watching lion Cubs playing it. It’s just, it’s just fascinating. They’re just, they’re totally in the moment, just like children, like they don’t have the, the phones being, they don’t, they don’t have the responsibilities to worry about.

[00:06:32] And I think as we grow up and as we adults, we lose that and watching animals, I’m just watching them in their natural environments and, and seeing their, their triumphs and their, their failures and, and it, yeah, it’s just, it’s hard to put into words. I hope I didn’t okay. A job there.

[00:06:53] Izolda Trakhtenberg: No, you did great. It’s it is interesting to me that there are times there was a, I don’t know [00:07:00] if you remember the movie, a fish called.

[00:07:03] Did you ever see that movie with John Cleese and Jamie Lee Curtis, Kevin Klein. Did you ever see that movie? I do not. I have. Nope, no worries. No worries. Eh, th th the movie itself is it is wonderful, fabulous. Kevin Klein won the Oscar, and there was a sort of a, kind of a sequel using the same actors. Uh, they did another movie and it was called fierce creatures, and it was about a zoo.

[00:07:27] And this, uh, this woman came in to sort of make the zoo more efficient and. Uh, she had, there was a gorilla at the zoo and she had this incredible experience of just seeing the gorilla as another being on the planet and, and the, the people who are in the Zuora desperately trying to save the zoo, which was, uh, supposed to be a very sort of humanitarians or whatever, whatever, but they, they looked at each other and they went, ah, she’s gotten it.

[00:07:56] She understands now that that is something she didn’t know before that she couldn’t [00:08:00] have known before she had that experience of, of connection. And so that makes me think of what you were talking about. That it’s hard to explain that connective moment between us seeing animals in the wild and understanding.

[00:08:17] Their inherent value. And I’m wondering if you have any thoughts on how we could increase those experiences or, or make them more accessible to people so that more people understand the inherent value of, of the other beings. We share the planet with

[00:08:37] Lisa Roberti: that. Yeah. And that’s exactly what, um, my mission is I after COVID, so I’ve been, you know, traveling to Africa and taking photographs, um, for 20 something years, 27 years.

[00:08:51] And I, and I really haven’t done anything with them. And after COVID happened and tourism got shut down, um, W w [00:09:00] became aware of all of the problems in the wild places, um, how much poaching increased, how much the land grabbing was happening, um, and how we were losing more and more wild places because without tourism, the value of the land to the locals went down.

[00:09:22] Tourism brings jobs to the local, um, people, um, they have jobs and lodges, they have shops, they have mechanics, they have Rangers, they have, and, and, and the, the tourism money also pays for Rangers. So there was a lot more poaching and there was a lot more, um, um, like I said, human wildlife conflict because the value had gone down to the local people.

[00:09:46] Um, it wasn’t bringing in money anymore. And so as. Uh, safari goers, a person who loves to go to wild places and loves to be with the animals. Um, I’ve decided [00:10:00] to, I’m using now my photographs and my stories to try and get people, to see how amazing it is to go, whether it’s Africa or somewhere closer to home, to these wild places to support them.

[00:10:14] Um, it, it has to be sustainable. I mean, we don’t want to like destroy them with, with. Thousands and thousands of tourists, it has to be a sustainable practice, but people, tourism brings value to the land and it brings value to the people that are living around these beautiful wild places. And so I’ve actually, um, I’m actually working right now on a interactive guide to help people plan their safaris.

[00:10:42] And, um, and, and, and the reason I’m doing that again is I’m really hoping that if people want to go on safari and they, they can plan a safari that meets their expectations and they go, and they love it in there. They’re just so enthralled by it. And they’re going to come home and they’re going to tell other [00:11:00] people, and that way we can really preserve wild places and preserve the value for everybody.

[00:11:09] Um, I can’t even imagine a world where there’s no wild elephants or wild lions, and we’re getting there. We’re really getting there. These animals are disappearing at unknown. I mean, just such fast, such as fast space. And I tell everybody, I talked to him like, if you really want to see wild animals in the wild, you have to go and you have to go now.

[00:11:34] And the more people I believe, the more people who go and get to experience that amazing, like seeing what it really is like seeing life, how it is for these creatures, that they will gain value and people will understand the incredible value they have on them, the planet, the world, everything. And [00:12:00] I think, you know, there’s a lot of really great, um, places out there that are doing a great job.

[00:12:05] I mean, there’s so many TV channels that you can find beautiful documentaries about these beautiful Sentium beings. And so you can, you can get it, you it’s there and people are, are beginning to see it. And there’s so much more, um, you know, there’s so much more activity going on to save these animals now, which is, which is fabulous.

[00:12:29] But me personally, I think actually being there in person is so different than watching it on your TV screen. It’s just smelling the smells and hearing the sounds and seeing these creatures and watching their lives unfold before your eyes. It’s just, you’ve been, you know, it’s just an experience that stays with you and, and gets into your soul

[00:12:55] Izolda Trakhtenberg: for life.

[00:12:59] I’m taking all [00:13:00] of that in for a second. Yes. Yes. See that’s this is me going. Yes. Yes. Lisa, keep going. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. It, you know, it’s fascinating. I remember when I w when I was in South Africa, And we went, we went on a photo safari and we were in this little mini van and we pulled into this little, it, it was almost like a natural driveway.

[00:13:24] It was this little natural sort of bordered, uh, drive in if you will, where I guess they took people a lot. And there was a, there were a couple of prides of lions hanging out. And first of all, I found out male lines kind of lazy that’s for sure. But, but what was really interesting and, and I’m going to, I have a question in here somewhere, but it was really interesting to see what the lionesses did.

[00:13:49] They started walking around our little van, just circling around it and circling around it. And one of them went and laid down behind the [00:14:00] little minivan and there was no way for us to leave and we were all going. And they’re thinking you have got to run out of gas sometime, you know, and it was really interesting because we, you know, and the, and our driver was like, it’s going to be fine.

[00:14:12] She’ll move. Everything will be fine. And it, and of course it was, but what it did for me is it really made me go, I am in a different place now and agave me this wonderful moment of awareness of my role. You know what I mean? Because, because I am not the king of the jungle, you know, people are not the Kings of the Jew.

[00:14:36] This was very, it was very, eye-opening like, oh yeah, there a, it’s sort of like a plate, your place in the universe kind of situation. So I’m wondering when you are out on safari and you’re having these incredible experiences, how do you feel? You’ve said that they’re magnificent and amazing, but how do you feel when you are there in that moment, observing and photographing these [00:15:00] incredible beings?

[00:15:02] Oh, gosh,

[00:15:03] Lisa Roberti: I’ve had so many incredible experiences. I’ve seen births, I’ve seen animals take their first steps. I have seen animals fighting for their lives. I’ve seen so many things and, and it’s every, every moment is just, um, a moment of, of wonder and awe. And, you know, you would think I’ve been, I I’ve spent over 40 weeks just in, just in Africa, in Safin, wildlife, rich areas in Africa, plus, you know, all over other places around the world and it I’m still in awe, I’m still in wonder.

[00:15:40] Um, I could, you know, I don’t get bored and you see different things all the time. You see. Yeah,

[00:15:49] Izolda Trakhtenberg: you just,

[00:15:51] Lisa Roberti: I feel like I feel so special to be able to witness the, these [00:16:00] lives, you know, to, to actually to be there, to, to see what’s happening. I’ve cried, tears of joy and tears of sorrow. I I’ve, you know, I’ve and I’m not going to say I’ve seen, you’ve never seen it all right in nature, but I I’ve just, I’ve seen so many things and, and, and, you know, even watching, uh, like you said, a PRI a coalition of male lions laying under a tree in the shade, sleeping.

[00:16:25] And even that even just, just watching them breathing. I know it sounds crazy, but it’s just this, this huge thousand pound animal lane right there, like 10 feet away from you while you’re safely in your vehicle.

[00:16:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That’s just

[00:16:45] Lisa Roberti: life for them. And, and you wonder you, like what, what does he dream about? What does he think about, you know, and it’s crazy, but

[00:16:55] Izolda Trakhtenberg: it’s, it’s

[00:16:56] Lisa Roberti: just, it’s just amazing.

[00:16:57] And, and then when you see, [00:17:00] like, when you see, um, and I don’t want to get into the sad stories, but I witnessed something that was incredibly sad. We had been following a very young lion Cub, um, and his pride for days and days and days. And then I witnessed him being killed by a herd of Buffalo. And you see the mother lioness and I mean, there was.

[00:17:26] It was a herd of probably a thousand Buffalo. And this lioness was trying so hard to get to her Cub. And the Cub was just too, too small. It couldn’t run away in time and to watch this lioness and trying to get in there and trying to, to protect her Cub and, and watching

[00:17:46] Izolda Trakhtenberg: this, this defense’s

[00:17:47] Lisa Roberti: little creature being killed and it’s, you know, and it’s, it’s nature and it’s sad and I’m crying.

[00:17:53] I’m bawling my eyes out. I couldn’t even take pictures because it was like, this was one of my earlier trips and I’m [00:18:00] like, I, I just couldn’t do it. And then, and then after finally, you know, the herd of Buffalo finally scattered and the fi the mom lioness, she kept searching and searching and searching for her Cub.

[00:18:14] And she finally found the lifeless body. And it, and again, I don’t need to get into a sad story, but it’s, it’s part of

[00:18:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: seeing. That

[00:18:24] Lisa Roberti: these animals, and this is probably going to raise a lot of people’s hair on the back of their necks. They have emotions, they care. She th the looks on her face, her behavior when she found her dead Cub, it, it was heartbreaking.

[00:18:41] It was, um, and, and just to witness that and to see the lives of these animals. And again, this was all nature. It wasn’t human impacted at all. And to see that, that the vulnerabilities they have, and then to witness the other side though, too, like I’ve seen [00:19:00] animals being born. I’ve seen animals taking their first stops, and it’s just,

[00:19:06] Izolda Trakhtenberg: it, it it’s so

[00:19:07] Lisa Roberti: incredible.

[00:19:08] I don’t even remember what your question was on a tangent, but it, and I’m just so into the moment. And it’s just, it’s an experience that goes into your soul, that. That stays with you forever. And even if it’s just, like I said, lion, sleeping under a treat shade tree or witnessing something so intense like that or witnessing, I know everybody wants to see a, uh, see a kill or a hunt or whatever.

[00:19:38] And, um, it doesn’t have to be that intense. It’s just every part of their lives. You see how every moment it’s a life and death moment for these beings. And, you know, as humans, we should say, as humans in America, most of us don’t live that way. I know there are some times where, where there is, but, you know, [00:20:00] we, we live sheltered lives.

[00:20:01] We don’t, we, or I should say I, because I know there are people on the planet, humans on the planet, and especially right now that are fighting for their lives, but there’s so many of us that, um, you know, we get up, we go to work, we go to the grocery store and we don’t think about life and death. And, and when you’re there and you’re witnessing it and you’re seeing these animals of prey and the predators fighting every moment of their lives for survival, but also having empathy, um, seeing elephants grieving over a lost one and just put morning skulls of long lost elephants that they probably didn’t even know.

[00:20:44] I mean, there’s so many levels of, there’s so much

[00:20:47] Izolda Trakhtenberg: depth to it, to every

[00:20:50] Lisa Roberti: being and you have to see it, I think to really appreciate

[00:20:55] Izolda Trakhtenberg: it.

[00:20:59] [00:21:00] Thank you for sharing all of that. Wow. Wow. And yes, you shared a sad story, but it was such a profound one and it’s, and it’s true. I mean, even just looking at my domestic kitties at home, they have emotions. Obviously they have emotions, they are thinking and feeling beings and, and there’s no doubt in my mind that every animal has that same level of, of sentients the thing that I, the thing that I personally struggle with is how, how do we raise that?

[00:21:37] I know you said. Uh, and by that, by that, I mean, awareness, I know you said you have to experience it, but, but let’s, let’s face it. Most of us here in the USA, at least, uh, aren’t going to go on safari. I, it would be cool if we could, but what else, what innovative ways could we experience this kind of connection that [00:22:00] you’re talking about or close to it?

[00:22:02] The park go, you know,

[00:22:06] Lisa Roberti: watch your animals, watch your pets. Like you said, it all that like, even a lot of people have pets, but a lot of people don’t really see their pets. They don’t really see, like we are their life. We are their entire life. Like when you leave and you come back and look so excited to see.

[00:22:30] You know, it’s because we have every, you know, we have phone calls to people and we have all these other things and these and the animals, they just have us. And some people, sometimes we forget that and you can just look at your, your kid or your dog, or go to the park and, and, and just observe, um, birds even.

[00:22:51] Um, or if you’re lucky enough to live somewhere where there’s Fox or, um, some other type of, of wildlife that you can safely [00:23:00] observe. Um, birds are probably the easiest and suburbia. Um, but you could just, I have a bird feeder, and again, that might raise a hair on some people’s necks thinking that, you know, some people think that bird feeders are bad, but I have a bird feed of her right outside of my office.

[00:23:17] And it’s fascinating to watch the behavior at the feeder. And you just can learn so much about. Um, and I can’t pick out individual birds. I mean, I know species and stuff, but like, I, I, you know, I wouldn’t know, oh, this is the one that was here yesterday. I can’t do that. But like watching, just, just watching them and taking a moment to stop all the noise and just breathe and take in nature just really puts you in a different space.

[00:23:48] It, it, it brings you peace. It brings you like stopping for a moment, like stop and smell the roses, right. Just stop and be in nature. And you can do [00:24:00] that any almost anywhere in the world. And again, there’s a lot of places you can, but you know, in, in the United States, especially, I mean, even, even big cities have parks,

[00:24:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: you know, and you could go to the park,

[00:24:14] Lisa Roberti: you know, if you ha if you have, if you’re lucky enough to have a backyard, You know, just sit in your backyard and just take a few moments to breathe, to hear, to listen, to smell, you know, listening to the birds, listening to the, the cicadas right now.

[00:24:33] But it is it just, it really, if you just breathe it in and take a moment

[00:24:39] Izolda Trakhtenberg: to just be,

[00:24:42] Lisa Roberti: and forget about all the noise around you, meaning human noise, like meaning like all your to-do list and everything you have to do, and just,

[00:24:53] Izolda Trakhtenberg: just enjoy the beautiful beauty of mother nature.[00:25:00]

[00:25:02] Yes. See again. Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah. I, you know, it’s funny. I talked to my clients about that when I, when I’m doing coaching, we talk a lot about going for walks. That’s a big one, go for walks and don’t just look down. Look up. See what else is there? Say hello to the trees, all of those sorts of things.

[00:25:21] Yes. It’s C were, were, were mutual admiration society lease. I like that. Um, so, so all of that is, is really good. As far as bringing awareness, how do we bring awareness? And it can start small. I agree with you. Go outside, breathe. Look up, look at, look at the critters. Look at the plans. Look at the trees.

[00:25:43] Spend some time in nature when we don’t anymore. So many of us, I think we pass the tipping point relatively recently, where more of us live in urban areas than live in non-urban areas all over the planet, which is amazing. Cause that’s a lot of planet. And so the question that I have for you is [00:26:00] going out for a walk is great.

[00:26:02] Build a, starting to build that awareness is terrific. If I am at that place, if I’ve gone for my walks and I’ve figured out that this is something I want more of. What happens I noticed with people is that they go, oh, this is cool. I want more. So what’s the next step for someone who wants in, in your, in your opinion, since you spent so much time traveling to these wild places, what’s the next step for someone who’s like, okay, I’ve got this awareness and now I want to do something else.

[00:26:30] They may not have a lot of money, but, but something, what would you suggest someone do if they want to increase that connection? Okay.

[00:26:41] Lisa Roberti: So the, so there’s, there’s a two part answer here. Um, if they want to do it too, for, for their own, for their own enjoyment, um, They’re in most places again, around the United States, um, S you know, you could take a Saturday [00:27:00] afternoon and do some, do some, just Google homework about beautiful, um, bigger parks that are around or hiking areas that are around with, within a, you know, take a day trip or half a day trip.

[00:27:13] Um, I live, I live in the cornfields and I haven’t even seen a squirrel. I’ve lived here for two years and I’ve never even seen a squirrel. Um, but within, you know, a couple hour drive, I can get, um, to some, some beautiful areas and, and, and hike, and that doesn’t cost any money or, or very little money. If there might be an interest entrance fee for the, for the park, of course, in the United States, we have some beautiful, um, national parks that, uh, people can go to.

[00:27:44] And that, you know, if it, if it requires traveling and hotel stays, of course, that’s going to add, um, Uh, an expense, but there’s a lot of things you can do that, that don’t. And that’s the one part that’s part, one of how do you get enjoyment out of it? Part [00:28:00] two, um, to learn more in everything is to start getting involved, um, and, and be aware of laws that are coming into play, um, that protect animals, um, even, you know, on cold rainy, you know, when, when, when winter comes and it’s dark at four o’clock in the afternoon, there’s great.

[00:28:24] Documentaries about animals and wild places and that you can watch and immerse yourself that way. Um, there’s a website that I would love to share. It’s called explore.org, where they have live cams from all over the world and you can’t, and, and it’s not only wildlife. They even have like, um, where they’re breeding puppies, um, for service dogs.

[00:28:50] And you can see the puppies being bred for service dogs. And it’s an amazing, um, non-for-profit, that’s trying to help people connect [00:29:00] that, that can’t maybe go to Africa or Alaska or Costa Rica, or, you know, any of these beautiful places. Um, and it’s, and you can get, you can get lost and you can see it. And, um, and it’s, it’s amazing, but I, I would say the more you can get outside, just even around your house, Um, the more connected you you’ll feel and the more at peace

[00:29:26] Izolda Trakhtenberg: to absolutely.

[00:29:29] And, you know, it’s interesting during COVID times, that was one of the things that saved me was being able to step outside because you do go a little stir crazy when you’re, when you’re stuck in doors. So, and it doesn’t have to be around a lot of people, if you can just go for a solo walk or something like that is amazing.

[00:29:47] And, and yet there’s, there’s so much awareness we can build and so much appreciation we can build. And now, honestly, I want to go to the next step. [00:30:00] So let’s say. You’ve gotten you’ve you’ve you’ve watched all the documentaries. You’ve read books. You’ve done. Let’s say you want to go on a safari. What is a safari?

[00:30:11] What? I know what I did. We went on a day trip, but I was there for work for NASA. So I wasn’t on a safari. We just went on a day trip to see lions and hyenas and zebras. So it wasn’t quite the same. But what, when someone says a safari, what are they saying? And how, how does one do that? What do you do to go on safari?

[00:30:31] And what is it?

[00:30:33] Lisa Roberti: So great question. Um, usually people talk about safaris in terms of Africa. Um, you can go to wildlife, rich places, anywhere in the world. Alaska happens to be one of my favorite places, but when people talk about safari, it’s usually going to one of nine to 11 countries in Africa, and I’ve been to seven, um, safari rich, uh, places in Africa.

[00:30:57] And I think people would be really surprised to [00:31:00] understand the amount of diversity of things that you can do when you go to Africa. Because a lot of people, and even my sister, I took her on safari and now she is absolutely hooked. She was like, you know, I think it might be boring just to drive around and look at animals.

[00:31:16] And then she went and she can’t get an off now she’s this is. She’s leaving in a couple of weeks for her third safari, but you can, um, you can do so. First of all, there’s cultural. So you can do cultural visits and learn about the, the, the cultures. You can do conservation, where you learn about human wildlife conflict, and what’s being done to help prevent that you can, um, do traditional safari would be where you’re in a vehicle and you’re driving around and you’re stopping.

[00:31:47] And you’re looking at animals and watching behavior. You can do walking safaris, you can do balloon safaris. You can do horseback safaris. You can do, you can go on in some places. [00:32:00] You can go on ATVs. You can go fishing. You can like if you go to east Africa, you can. Part safari park beach, you can do. Um, whale-watching um, if you’re in Southern Africa, you can tie a safari with wineries and, and wine businesses and Cape town.

[00:32:18] Um, so I think there’s, there’s such a diversity of things that you can actually do on safari. And that’s actually why I created this, this planner that I’ve created. I, and it’s to help people realize all the opportunities and help them kind of narrow down what they actually really want on safari. The other thing too, is there’s so many different places to go and so many different seasons.

[00:32:43] And what do you really want to see, um, as far from, as far as animal life, because if you really want to see a rhino, there’s certain places you can go where your opportunity is much greater to see a rhino. Then if you go to other places, um, and of course it’s nature. So you’re never guarantee. [00:33:00] Any citing, but, um, there’s places where you can go where you really raise the, the opportunity or the possibility of seeing what, what you want to see.

[00:33:10] And so I created this, this planner to kind of talk about all these different things. And, and also the other thing is a lot of people, you know, have a four seasons dream, but they have a best Western budget. And what do you do if, if you have that, if you’re upside down and what you really want to do and what you can afford and, and how do you then not be disappointed.

[00:33:33] And, um, so just things like that, you know, I, I discussed that. And then what if you have mobility issues or special eating requirements, um, how do you get around that? And then also just right now, traveling during COVID, I I’ve been on safari multiple times throughout COVID, I’ve been to Africa, um, Alaska and other places, and it’s doable.

[00:33:57] It’s challenging and you need to know what to look for [00:34:00] to make sure you can navigate through and that you don’t get stuck somewhere because you don’t have the right tests or you don’t have the right documentation. Um, so there’s, there’s actually a lot to go into it, but it’s fun planning. The safari should be exciting and fun and something to look forward to.

[00:34:20] Um, it’s, it’s part of the journey. Obviously the best part is actually being there, but it’s part of the journey of, of, of getting to live your dream. I remember I had always dreamed of seeing animals in the wild, like, you know, went to the zoos and everything and I thought, oh my God, how amazing would it be?

[00:34:41] And when I first started planning my first safari, it was. Oh, God, it was like the dream finally coming true. And it was so exciting to look at all the different opportunities and to see all the different ideas and the things that you could do. And, um, yeah, so that’s, and then, and [00:35:00] then finding reputable companies, um, to work with, um, there, I’ve heard a lot of disaster stories of people, um, and it’s, it’s easy when you know what to look for.

[00:35:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Cool. I want to go on his Fari again. That’s cool. Yeah. You know, and it, it is so interesting to me. I love, I love Alaska also. I’ve been, and it’s, it’s in many ways. It’s like, uh, it’s just, uh it’s so it’s so different than anywhere else I’ve ever been. And so when I’m looking at this, when I’m thinking about, oh, I want to plan my safari and I want to go travel and I want to see wild places.

[00:35:43] How do we do. Consciously, how do we, what, what, what do we need to do to, like I said, you know, take only photographs, leave, leave only footprints. I guess that’s like an eco-tourism thing. What are your thoughts on that? What innovative ways could we, as people who [00:36:00] want to go on safari to, to, to commune with nature and to be, and observe these animals and nature, wherever we’re, wherever we go, how do we do it?

[00:36:11] Responsibly?

[00:36:13] Lisa Roberti: Great, great question. And. That all ties into the company and the lodges. Um, there are a lot, there’s a lot of choices out there when you go on safari. I, I just, um, picked up, uh, like a safari magazine and it’s just pages and pages and pages of advertisements for different companies and different lodges and different everything.

[00:36:40] And with the internet, now you can really do a lot of research and find the, the lodges that are eco-friendly, um, that are doing the right thing. Um, you can like there’s, there’s conservancies out there where they really limit the number of [00:37:00] people to make sure that there’s, that there’s not so many, um, people in a, in a small area so that the wild places are staying.

[00:37:11] Christine. And, um, you can do that. There’s, there’s a lot of mass tourism, um, places. And then there’s the, the eco-friendly places. And one thing that, um, most of these countries in Africa I’ve done actually better than first rule countries is most of them now have outlawed single use plastic and things like United States is not even talking about doing that.

[00:37:36] Right. And, um, so just even supporting these countries and, and, and what they’re doing is, is a big, is a big step, but yes, there are eco-friendly lodges that, um, where you, where you go in, or you can, like I said, you can do the research and they tell you about all the steps that they’re doing to recycle, reuse, [00:38:00] um, the, the water systems.

[00:38:02] They have the purification systems. They have to make, um, the least amount of impact on the land. As possible and those types of places, um, they’re becoming more and more and more. It used to be few and far between, but now that people are becoming more aware of the environment, um, they, that’s a big selling point for a lot of these places.

[00:38:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I it’s

[00:38:30] Lisa Roberti: also, sorry, also, I’m sorry. It’s also your, um, like if you do decide to go travel with a group or you decide to go on your own, who, the, the company that you book with, whether you book direct through lodges or you book through, um, uh, Africa specialist, those there’s different levels there too, where some of them are more concerned about that.

[00:38:54] And then others are more concerned about just pushing lots of people through. And again, you, you can tell. [00:39:00] If you’re in, if you’re familiar with eco-friendly, anything as you’re, as you’re reviewing and previewing, you can see, um, what they’re doing, um, for eco eco-friendly they’ll they’ll offer carbon offset.

[00:39:16] Um, I know even United airlines is doing carbon offset now. Um, they will, um, yeah. And they’ll talk about it because that’s a big point for a lot of people. So it’s, it’s out there. It’s a little bit harder to find it’s becoming easier and easier to find. Um, but even like I said, these countries even stopping single use plastic, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re, they are trying really hard to preserve and make their countries more beautiful and pristine.

[00:39:55] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Oh, that makes me so happy to hear that. It really does. I mean, I, I, cause I worry about [00:40:00] that. Not, not, not, I, you know, I’m not, I’m not trying to insult any, any developing nations or anything like that, but I want to be sure as, as you know, as a vegan, as someone who’s, who tries to be very eco-conscious, I want to again, leave the smallest footprint possible.

[00:40:18] So, so that’s something that we we can do is we can look for these eco-friendly and, uh, environmentally conscious places to stay or trips to take. And I think that that’s amazing. So if I what’s the number one piece of advice you have for someone going, what, what’s the thing that they absolutely either need to know or need to do.

[00:40:44] Lisa Roberti: I think they need. I think the biggest thing that I’ve, I’ve seen and heard is for them to really understand what they want. What do you really want out of the safari? [00:41:00] What is your dream? What are you when you close your eyes? And you’re like, I want to go on safari. I can’t wait to go on safari. What does that look like?

[00:41:09] And then making sure that what you book matches that or exceeds. Um, and that’s where booking with somebody with a lot of Africa experience is critical because you may have these beautiful visions in your mind. Like you, you want, uh, uh, responsible tourism, you, you want minimal impact. Can you imagine if that was what your goal and ideal was?

[00:41:38] And then you get there and you’re in a lodge, that’s got 200 rooms and it’s just waste everywhere. Like that would be devastating to you. So really understanding what it is that is important to you, what your dream is, and then making sure that your booking [00:42:00] matches that and exceeds that so that when you go it’s everything you’ve dreamed about and so much more and so much.

[00:42:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that. And I have a tough question for you right now, because that part was great. The part that I’m, that I get concerned about is what we can do. Some, some of the practices that I have read about and, and, and heard about are abusive to the wildlife and, you know, and, and sort of tourists, you know, like elephants painting or, or, you know, or any, they can’t, that, that, that can’t be real.

[00:42:42] That can’t be something that is, that is the elephant. When you know what I’m going to grab a paintbrush and I’m going to paint a cat. I cannot imagine that that’s something they elephant decided that she wanted to do. So. So how do we, is it, do we vote with our dollars? How do we, how do we [00:43:00] avoid practices that could be abusive to the, to the very animals we want to see and protect.

[00:43:07] Lisa Roberti: Awesome. Question. Thank you so much for bringing this up because this is, this is something I talk about all the time. So almost any experience where, and I’m going to say almost because this is not a hundred percent true and I’ll explain the caveat. So almost any experience where you can be hands-on with an animal is led with abuse.

[00:43:35] Um, so, and I’m, I’m. In South Africa, and this is changing. Thank God that they’re changing the laws over there in South Africa, they, they used to have this thing where they would get tourism, tourists to pay big money, to come and raise the orphaned lion Cubs so that they can return them into the wild where what they’re actually doing is they’re raising these Cubs.

[00:43:57] They’re getting money income from the tourist [00:44:00] pain to play with these Cubs. And then when the Cubs got big enough, then they would go into canned hunts and they’d be slaughtered. And of course they weren’t telling the people that there’s also opportunities where you can, um, walk with cheetahs. And again, that these animals are, um, abused and tortured in order to.

[00:44:21] Betaine quote, unquote enough to do that paint, brushing with elephants or painting the elephants painting or playing basketball. Um, the pictures I have seen in the stories of the abuse that these animals endure, the whipping, the everything that they go through to learn and to hold a paintbrush and to do these things.

[00:44:42] And, and of course there it’s being touted as, um, a sanctuary. And it’s just not anything that it, if you ever see an, an animal doing something that it is not in its normal repertoire, it’s been [00:45:00] abused to do that. And, um, and I say almost always, there are several places that, uh, Where you do have opportunity, um, to, to be a little bit more close, where it truly is a sanctuary and these animals aren’t abused.

[00:45:17] One is Sheldrick, wildlife trust. Um, routinely also has one in San Bruin is again elephants where they take orphaned baby elephants. And the elephants are orphaned due to poaching, um, human wildlife conflict, or natural deaths. And they raise these babies and then they reintroduce them into the wild and they have this huge success.

[00:45:37] And in order to raise money, they do allow people to come and view the babies. And, um, and so there’s it in one hand, you’re like, oh, is this, is this one of those bad things? Or is this one of those good things? And it’s sometimes even for me, I have to do a lot of research. To, to make sure that I’m only supporting the ones that are actually [00:46:00] doing good work and, um, shelter glide, wildlife trust is one in Nairobi, Kenya.

[00:46:05] And then, um, drafts center is another one where you can actually feed the giraffes. And again, my normal checklist, that would be an absolute no-no. But because I did the research and I did the homework to know that these are wild drafts, they’re accustomed to people. It was it’s, um, it’s a draft subspecies.

[00:46:27] It’s very endangered Rothschild giraffe that they had, um, brought in to try and repopulate them. And they do reintroduce them back into the wild. Um, and it’s like, what steps are they’re taking? What measures are they taking to make sure they’re not getting too used to humans? Um, and that we aren’t impacting their normal lives.

[00:46:45] Like it’s not normal for a human to feed a giraffe. So like where is that line? And in some places, the line is a little blurry. Giraffe Centre because they’re doing really good work. The animals are not abused [00:47:00] in other places is so it’s so crystal clear that this is just bad and such a case as like you pointed out the elephants that are painting, like they are just absolutely abused.

[00:47:11] They’re performing things. They don’t normally perform. Um, when you’re feeding the draft giraffe center there they’re eating. Like they would normally eat, they’re reaching out with their tongue and they’re grabbing it as if it were a leaf on a tree, you know? So it’s not, they’re not doing something that’s abnormal taking it out of a human hand.

[00:47:28] Yeah. That’s abnormal versus an elephant, you know, holding a paintbrush and painting strokes. That’s just not normal behavior. So it’s it’s. Yeah. And I’ve had to research there’s, there’s an elephant sanctuary. Um, In Indonesia that I’m interested in and visiting, but I’m still on the fence about whether this is a true sanctuary or not.

[00:47:52] And I’m trying to do a lot more research and sometimes it’s really hard to know. Um, and, and of course we [00:48:00] don’t want to contribute to abuse of any kind.

[00:48:05] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Completely and absolutely, totally. And for sure. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for sure. And it’s interesting, uh, many years ago, uh, I was part, uh, I was a volunteer at the national zoo for the golden lion tamarin project and it was reintroducing them into the wild and they weren’t in cages.

[00:48:24] Right. So, so our job was to, uh, sort of make sure that they’re the key where they were was, was okay for them to be, and we would sort of leave food where they might find it, but they weren’t in cages. They were above people’s heads. Right. And, and sort of running around in, in the trees and along the ropes and things like that to get.

[00:48:47] To be used to being outside so that they could be reintroduced back into the wild and south America. What was interesting about that is how much, and I’m not a zoo fan. I will be very honest. I do not. I do [00:49:00] not like zoos animals don’t belong in cages. I, that I have to say, but being part of that project for me was eye-opening because the people, the individual people I was working with cared so very much about making sure that these endangered beings would have a real chance at living in the wild.

[00:49:21] And that’s something that, that we have to remember that that wa as soon as they are, um, in connection with, with human. Beings that that changes. And so I’m wondering, what are your thoughts on rehabilitation or no reintroduction, I guess I would say of animals back into the wild. Can, can that happen in a way that is really safe and good for them?

[00:49:51] And, and how do we weigh that if, if not doing the rehabilitation and helping them would just end up in their [00:50:00] deaths?

[00:50:01] Lisa Roberti: Yeah. So I’m going to go back to David shelter, wildlife trust out of Nairobi. Um, they have successfully, and I don’t know the numbers off the top of my head. I, um, they have successfully reintroduced, I think it’s over a hundred elephants.

[00:50:20] Um, and. The success stories are incredible because again, they take them when they’re babies, they stay in Nairobi national park. When they get, um, Nairobi national park, doesn’t have elephants, um, it’s too small, but they have these baby elephants that are cared for by humans. And then when they get big, they bring them into, they have three different re-integration units and then it is, they slowly reintegrate themselves into the wild herds.

[00:50:49] And again, there’s people taking care of them, giving, making sure they’re being fed, making sure they’re being cared for. And then the wild herds come in and they slowly, um, in some of them can take 10, 15 [00:51:00] year before they, they actually become wild. And it’s amazing because now they’ve had females that have been reintroduced in the wild who have gone off in the wild herds, actually having babies with wild elephants.

[00:51:13] And because they supply water sources, a lot of times they will come back. Um, and it’s really interesting. And again, this is a huge success story. Um, they’ve actually had, and again, it goes to the intelligence of wild animals. They’ve actually had a wild bull who, who was meeting with one of the ex orphan females was speared.

[00:51:38] And two of his bull buddies, you know, to show us three male, um, bull elephants actually came into the re-introduction unit looking for help. Wow.

[00:51:49] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And,

[00:51:49] Lisa Roberti: and of course they were cared for and everything by the veterinarian staff there. Um, so in some cases that, that re-introduction, it’s, it it’s phenomenal [00:52:00] and they’ve shown it time and time again, like with elephants it’s possible with the monkeys.

[00:52:04] I hopefully that, that the tamarins, hopefully that was a success story and that they were able to do that. They’ve done it with Eagles. They’ve done it. Um, the, the ones that I’ve never heard a success story of is, um, predators, because how do you take. And teach it how to hunt. How do you take a Cub and teach it how to hide?

[00:52:26] How do you take, you know, and, and I’ve never heard of a successful, um, re well, actually that’s not true. Um, gosh, there’s the famous story and I’m, I’m drawing a total blank right now. How can I about the, the man and wife who rescued the three lions? The Cubs? Oh yeah.

[00:52:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Three. Yes, yes, yes,

[00:52:45] Lisa Roberti: yes. And they, and they successfully reintroduced them into the wild and man, it took them a long, long, long time to do that.

[00:52:54] Um, so I think it’s, I think, gosh, the more wild animals that, that are [00:53:00] impacted by human wildlife conflict that we can save and bring back into the wild, I man, those people, they have hearts of gold and they work their tails off and they’re so passionate and I would love, I would, gosh, I would love to be involved with something like.

[00:53:19] Did I answer your question? Yes,

[00:53:20] Izolda Trakhtenberg: yes, no, you, you, you absolutely did. It’s really, you know, that, that, that notion of how, how we, we can participate, but do so in a non invasive way to help these endangered beings that wouldn’t be endangered. If not for us anyway, is something that I, I need to. Go further, you know, I need to, personally, I need to, I need to look at that more.

[00:53:56] How can we do that in a noninvasive way so that [00:54:00] we’re helping and not hurting the wild places and the wild beings that are on those places are in those places. You know? And, and I think it’s, I think their names were the, was it the Adamson’s Georgia? Yeah. For born free and, and, and there are other, there are other people who spend their lives dedicated to.

[00:54:21] You know, preserving these wild places and, and helping animals. So, so it’s not, it’s not hopeless, but wow. We, we, you know, I think we all could do more to participate in helping, especially since there are people out there who are participating in hurting those places, so, and, and those animals. So we, you know, and, and do you have any recommendations about if somebody wants to get involved and help, uh, do you know of any places that, that someone could go, you know what I would like to get involved in a reputable place that’s, that’s working to preserve wild places [00:55:00] could be in the USA, could be in other places, doesn’t matter.

[00:55:02] Where would you send someone?

[00:55:05] Lisa Roberti: So a lot of these, um, and this is, this is where it gets really kitschy again, because. A lot of the places, they can’t just take regular volunteers, like people, untrained people. Um, there’s a lot of reasons for that one day and I’m, and I’m going to use shelter again because they are such a success story.

[00:55:31] So they don’t want the elephants getting used to people. They get used to their candlers, their keepers, um, and they were specific jackets, specific coats. They all wear the same style and color of coat. They wear the same clothes they wear the same. So the elephants aren’t necessarily making a generalization about humans.

[00:55:54] So they don’t allow. Um, volunteers and, and, and, you know, as a person who wants to, [00:56:00] it’s like, oh, come on. But I’m a good person. Just let me come and help. But they, for the safety and the sake of the animals, they can’t do that. And there again, there’s, there’s, there are places that will allow you to volunteer.

[00:56:12] Um, and there’s, there’s a couple companies and I, and I’m sorry, I don’t know the name off, off the top of my head. There are a couple of companies that actually set up volunteering, travel, where you actually go and you volunteer. And a lot of them are more for, um, like kids, like schools, like where you can go and volunteer at schools, which is also imperative because the, you know, these children, if they grow up to see the value of the wildlife and the wild places, they’re going to help preserve it.

[00:56:41] Right. So that’s, that part is really also very important, but, um, there’s not a lot of hands on true animal volunteering. W really wild places like Africa, Alaska, stuff like that, but that doesn’t prevent people from getting involved

[00:56:59] Izolda Trakhtenberg: at [00:57:00] home.

[00:57:01] Lisa Roberti: Um, you know, there’s some great opportunities, like even just like preserving in parks, keeping the parks, clean, volunteering at animal shelters, um, doing that kind of work.

[00:57:13] It’s hard work and it can be heartbreaking, but it’s so rewarding as well. And just, you know, let’s start with, and again, I’m a huge Africa. Uh, lover, but, but sometimes we gotta start at home too. Like what can you do at your, your park across the street or across town? Is there something that, that can be done to help preserve that too?

[00:57:37] You know, let’s do a trash cleanup day. Let’s do a, and there’s lots of volunteering opportunities at, at animal shelters. Um, but there are a few in, in Africa, um, that, that you can find. Um, but they’re, they’re not as wide as, as it would be nice if they weren’t just because again, for the safety of the animals, they can’t just [00:58:00] open it up to.

[00:58:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Sure. Absolutely. And I think that the notion of I’m going to go volunteer with animals, you know, that that’s something that would take a lot of study and you’d, you’d have to spend a long time getting prepared for that, but there are people, if they have a passion for it that do pursue something like that and, and can eventually, and I think you’re absolutely right.

[00:58:23] And I agree with you wholeheartedly, this notion that we can do something here, you can do something in your, in your backyard. You can do something in the park, you can do something in the animal shelter. There are lots of ways to participate in elevating awareness and in helping that don’t necessarily mean you get on a plane and go to another place.

[00:58:42] You could do it across town or even across the street. So I, your, your point is well made and well taken. Lisa, I really appreciate you saying that because yeah, I think we can, we can do it. It doesn’t have to be a grand gesture to be a really important. Anyway. Well, it’s,

[00:58:58] Lisa Roberti: it’s like they say, you know, [00:59:00] and I don’t remember exactly how the proverb goes.

[00:59:02] If that’s the right word, you know, walking down the beach and you’re throwing one starfish in when there’s a thousand starfish and it’s like, you can’t save them all, but that one act is really important to the one that you did save.

[00:59:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Exactly. And the last line of that story is it made a difference to that one.

[00:59:17] Yeah. I love that story. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I could keep you here for the next, I don’t know how long, because this is fantastic and I really appreciate you taking the time, Lisa and I do know that you have a life to get back to. So I was wondering if you know, you’re doing this, this document for all of the, uh, for people who want to plan a safari, what does I think is great, but also if people want to see your photographs and learn more about the work you’re doing, would you mind sharing your social channels?

[00:59:47] Where could someone who wants to go find you find.

[00:59:51] Lisa Roberti: So I’m on Instagram and Facebook. And it’s Lisa M as in Mary, just the initial we set em, Roberto, R O B E R T. [01:00:00] I, um, I also have a YouTube channel that I’m just starting out, but I, because I don’t have enough followers, I don’t have my, my, my pen name yet.

[01:00:08] Um, but you can just search for me there. And in there I do a lot of different travel stuff and lodge reviews and, um, things like that. And I’m just starting on, on that. I also have a Facebook group, um, called wildlife travel and con and conservation. Um, and that’s a place where I talk about, um, animal conservation laws that are coming up wins.

[01:00:29] Um, devastations and also talk all things travel, um, to wildlife, rich places around the world. It’s not just Africa, but it’s.

[01:00:37] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Fabulous. Thank you so much for sharing. And I’m going to put all of that along with some of Lisa’s fabulous photographs on the show notes page. You’re going to want to check that out for sure.

[01:00:47] And, and learn more about the incredible work Lisa’s doing and. Just see the photos. They’re so beautiful. I love them. You sent them to me and I’m like, these are awesome. So, [01:01:00] and you know, and, and you have a really amazing, I, I really just, you, you, you are able to capture such life and such spirit in, in every photograph that I’ve seen you take is wonderful.

[01:01:14] Thank you so much, my, oh no, thank you. I appreciate it. Cause I can’t go necessarily to Africa, but boy, I’m going to watch you guys. So I, I know that’s kind of silly cause I’m going to go to Africa again for sure. And I and Costa Rica. And I want to go back to Alaska. There’s so many places, you know, so many places to go, but I want to, I’ll always try to do it responsibly.

[01:01:36] You know, with enough money to actually go, that’s always a good thing. Uh, so I have just one question that I ask everybody who listens to the show. You know, the question, the try, you listen to the podcast. So everyone, everyone who comes on the podcast knows this question. Here’s this question? So here it is.

[01:01:53] If you had one thing that you wanted to say, because you had an airplane C I T, and [01:02:00] because I’m not thinking about it, I said it wrong. If you had an airplane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say? You know,

[01:02:08] Lisa Roberti: I, I knew this question was coming. I don’t like, ah, and I, and I’m like, what’s, what’s the few words, cause it’s behind an airplane.

[01:02:15] So, you know, it’s gotta be short, it’s sustained. And I’m like, okay. So really the quick short spend time in nature.

[01:02:26] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that it’s, it’s

[01:02:28] Lisa Roberti: simple. It’s so important. And it really, I think the more people spend time in nature, the more people will love it. And then people are going to want to preserve it.

[01:02:38] Because they’re in it and they love it so much.

[01:02:41] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Ah, that’s a great, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And you will, I mean, the second you spend time breathing chlorophyll, rich air because you’re out in your trees, it’s going to change you. So I love that. Wow. Thank you so much for that, Lisa. I am so grateful that you took the [01:03:00] time to be here and I’m super excited for people to learn more about you and more about your work.

[01:03:05] Thank you so much. Thank

[01:03:07] Lisa Roberti: you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure chatting with you and, um, I really appreciate your time. Thank

[01:03:12] Izolda Trakhtenberg: you. So it was all my pleasure. This is Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast. You obviously need to go check out Lisa birdie and her amazing work and all of the wild places she talked about.

[01:03:24] Eventually. I think you should do. You should do that too. If you’re liking the show, do me a favor, tell a friend, tell a friend about the show and tell a friend about all of the cool, innovative stuff we’re talking about until next time. This is his older Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast, reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and.

[01:03:43] A whole lot.

[01:03:49] thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you’re new and if you like what you’re hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. [01:04:00] And if you’d like to be a sponsor of the show, I’d love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[01:04:07] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today’s episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.

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