Biblical Scholar, Adam Stokes, on How Ancient Stories Can Help Us Navigate Today

Adam Stokes Discusses Lessons We Can Take From Ancient Myths and Stories

Adam Oliver Stokes holds degrees in religion from Duke University and Yale Divinity School. He has published on a variety of topics including biblical studies, Mormon studies, Classical studies, and ancient American history. He is the author of three books- From Egypt to Ohio: A Semitic Origin for the Giants of North America, Perspectives on the Old Testament, and The Latin Scrolls: Selections from the Five Megilloth taken from the Latin Vulgate. He currently teaches Latin at Penns Grove High School in New Jersey and lives in Edgewater Park, New Jersey with his wife and two sons.

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7-5-21 Adam Stokes [00:00:00] Adam Stokes: [00:00:00] I think that that is amazing. Lesson four for today, as we look at the state of the world and we’re always wanting to, you know, get more power, get, get more attention, get more fame, but look at what that cost and look how it hurts the people around you. And I think that goes back to looking at, you know, how the, the women in these, in these plays are portray criminal Astra and yeah. [00:00:25] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:00:25] Hi, and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I’m your host. Izolda Trakhtenberg. On the show. You get my conversations with peak performing thought leaders, creatives, and entrepreneurs. We explore how you can innovate through creativity, compassion, and collaboration. I believe that innovation combined with compassion and creative thinking can save the world and I aim to bring you ways. [00:00:48] You can do it too. If you’re enjoying the show, I’d be super grateful. If you could support it by buying me a cup of coffee, you can buy me a cup@buymeacoffee.com slash Izolda tea. And now [00:01:00] let’s get on with the show. [00:01:09] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I’m your host. Izolda Trakhtenberg, I’m super happy that you’re here and I’m really honored and happy to have today’s guest on the show. Check this out. And you will know that that my inner Greek mythology nerd is going to be so super happy to talk to this. [00:01:26] Gentlemen, Adam Oliver Stokes holds degrees in religion from duke university and Yale divinity school. He has published on a variety of topics, including biblical studies, Mormon studies, classical studies and ancient American history. He’s the author of three books from Egypt to Ohio, a submitted origin for the giants of north America. [00:01:46] Can’t wait to talk about that one perspectives on the old Testament and the Latin scrolls selections from the five Meggie LOTE taken from the Latin Vulgate. He currently teaches Latin at Penns Grove high school in New Jersey and lives in Edgewater park, New Jersey with [00:02:00] his wife and two sons. How exciting is this going to be Adam? [00:02:03] Thank you so much for being here. Welcome. [00:02:05] Adam Stokes: [00:02:05] Great to be here as always. Thank you for that. Oh, it’s my [00:02:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:02:07] pleasure. I’m I’m so excited to talk to you in part, because just let’s just jump on in what got you started. I know what got me started reading both inches mythology when I was nine years old. What got you started? [00:02:22] What fascinated you about this, these ancient cultures and civilizations that you decided to make it your life’s work? [00:02:30] Adam Stokes: [00:02:30] Yeah, well, I think it goes way back to my seventh grade Latin teacher, Mr. Butoh. My parents, my mom forced me to take Latin. I went in kicking and screaming. My dad thought it was kind of a pointless class to take. [00:02:43] He thought it was, you know, a dead language. But into about a week or so of the class, this was my goodness is older. This is about almost 30 years ago. Into about a week into the class I was hooked. And the reason I was hooked is that Mr. Butoh was kind [00:03:00] of an unconventional Latin teacher. I’m not saying, I mean, he knew his stuff left and right. [00:03:05]Definitely one of the finest linguist I’ve ever I’ve ever encountered in my life. But he made it interesting for us. There’s a way to teach Latin where it can be really boring and just really dry. And he just, how can I say it? He spiced it up. He brought in a lot of Roman history. He brought in a lot of mythology and I think at the time I was in middle school going into high school. [00:03:29]I was kind of a nerd. I was kind of one of the awkward kids didn’t really quite fit in. So the ancient world was kind of my escape and I just, I just fell in love with it. Basically from, from the first time I started. Engage in it. And I knew that in college, I wanted my trajectory to be my trajectory, to be towards looking at our ancient civilizations. [00:03:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:03:54] I love that a teacher inspired you to this because yeah, there are a lot of people who think [00:04:00] Latin is a dead language, but it’s the root of so many languages that knowing it can only be of benefit. So let me ask you a question. You’re you teach Latin, do you spice it up for your students? And if so, what is it that you do? [00:04:14] Adam Stokes: [00:04:14] Oh, yes. Oh yes. Well my school, I love, I absolutely love the school that I teach at Pence Grove to give you some of the demographics about that school. About 40% of that school is of the school I teach at is made up of Latino students, let you know, and Latino students. So they come in with Spanish and it’s really cool because I can hook them early on and say, you know, Spanish comes to. [00:04:37]From Latin. So I bring in a lot of, a lot of my focus is looking at the ways that Spanish intersects with Latin. What words are exactly the same as in Spanish, as they are in Latin. So for example to geek out here the second person singular too, is the same in Spanish. As it is in Latin. But I also do a lot of what Mr. [00:04:58] Beto did as well. We [00:05:00] were always, in fact, sometimes we do more Roman history and Greek mythology than translation of text themselves. So we’ve looked at basically everything from the Iliad to the Odyssey. We’ve looked at the various Roman emperors. I really liked the bad emperors, the naughty emperors the ones who, oh, gosh well, there’s a bunch of them, but I’ll S I’ll say we focus a lot on calendula. [00:05:23] We also focus on narrow. So those were the bad guys, my favorite emperor. He wasn’t actually bad, but I always highlight him and we must spend about a month on this guy is the emperor Claudius. And the reason that I do that is because Claudius likely. There was a whole mini series of him with my favorite actor who I would gladly divorce my wife or married their dare Jakoby. [00:05:48]Sarah  whom I absolutely love. But also we know from sources that Claudia has had some type of disability that he was possibly autistic or [00:06:00] something like that. And so I have some students who are dealing with disabilities themselves. So I always point to him and students always seem to appreciate this. [00:06:08] And I pointed him and say, you know, this was a guy who inspired his disability rose to be. The emperor, the ruler of the known world at the time. And he’s just a fascinating figure, not only for himself, but the way that he intersects with all these different other figures in history curricula Herod Agrippa in in Jewish history Tiberias. [00:06:30]Augustus he intersects with basically all the grades. So we do a lot of stuff with the emperors. I actually have like an emperor battle that they have to do. They have to argue effectively. So get into little small groups and they have to argue effectively, which emperor was the worst. So there’ll be a Nero or Caligula and you have to give the reasons why, or they’ll even, this is a project I’m going to have them do in the upcoming months. [00:06:54]They will choose an emperor and kind of have to do a campaign for that emperor. So if you want to get this emperor [00:07:00] elected, if you want it to get him voted into office which of course didn’t happen in the Roman world. The is just where we’re chosen to be emperor or from their lineage. But if you were, if it was modern times and you were trying to get, you know, narrow elected what could you do to get him? [00:07:14]What would you say about him? How would you depict him to get elected? So there’s campaign slogans and all that stuff. Now [00:07:20] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:07:20] is this all. [00:07:21] Adam Stokes: [00:07:21] So most of it is, yes. So they’ll so a lot of their projects still basically write out a slogan in Latin. So or write out a description in Latin. [00:07:30] So they’ll trans don’t write out something in English, translate into Latin and then use that as a template. [00:07:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:07:38] That’s so incredible. And I love that you do that, that you get them so engaged and involved and not just sitting down, which I think is phenomenal because often just sitting down for a long time, no matter what you’re studying is going to be tougher on a student than, than getting up and actually doing and having a campaign. [00:07:56] So what is the best slogan someone’s ever come up with for one of the [00:08:00] emperors? [00:08:01] Adam Stokes: [00:08:01] I think so I did a similar project at the school I taught at earlier, before I came to Penn strobe and I think the best one was. At least this emperor won’t feed you to the lions. So I think it was a tighter surface space Sheehan and comparing him to Nero. [00:08:18]I think they were, they were the two emperors up for election. And yeah, I think that, that one, I always get a kick out of. So, you know, it can’t be as bad as getting fled to the lions. [00:08:28] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:08:28] That’s actually probably true. So let me it’s I love, I love what you do as a teacher, but you’re also an author and you, you write and you publish works. [00:08:41] And I know that this is, this is going to sound a little weird, but when, when you’re doing this, when you’re, when you’re writing, you’re writing for a modern audience writing for a contemporary 20, 21 audience, and you’re writing about these things that happened thousands of years [00:09:00] ago, perhaps even longer, how do you make. [00:09:07] How do you make it relevant to the audience of 2021? And what lessons can we, as your readers learn to take into our future from, from these ancient civilizations in ancient stories? [00:09:21] Adam Stokes: [00:09:21] That’s, that’s a great question. And that’s something that is always, like you said, a challenge for anybody trying to, you know, convey ancient history to modern readers. [00:09:31]I’ve read so many not to knock other textbooks, but especially within biblical studies and old Testament, there’s so many textbooks that just give dry explanations of things. So. You’ll read a textbook and they’ll say, these are the books of the Hebrew Bible. This is their content, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [00:09:48] But it doesn’t really talk about, you know, how this stuff is relevant today. And even though the Bible was written thousands of years ago for one it is, you know, a text that is still accepted as scripture by [00:10:00] large groups of people today, Jews and Christians. And also I think just because it was the primary Western document for so long, it continues to have affects both good and bad for, for our culture and for our society. [00:10:14]And so one of the challenges and one of the things that I try to do in writing both perspectives of the old Testament and the Latin scrolls was to show the, how the Bible or at least how people, how pop culture is understood. The Bible still has implications for issues that we, that we do. [00:10:34]Today. So in my perspective, the old Testament book there’s an article in there about the treatment of Israelites towards foreigners. And I tied that article directly into the current discussion about immigration and treatment of foreigners here in America. When at a time when there is, there is increased us, you know, phobia My other book, the Latin scrolls actually, and I was advised to do this by [00:11:00] my editor and I think it was a great idea is older. [00:11:03]I was advised to put a section at the end of each of the megillah each of the scrolls that I translated what is the relevance of this scroll for today? So at the end of each of the translations, there is discussion about, you know, the contemporary relevance of, of the content in each of the scrolls. [00:11:23]So for example the scroll to the book of Esther I say, well, Esther was this average person who suddenly got skyrocketed, you know, to, to the, the highest. The highest status in society. She selling, we stressed into the court of the most powerful people in the world. What happens when this happens to you? [00:11:46] And I gave an example from my own life. I actually, when I was at duke just a little known me from, from Baltimore five foot two, actually got in the same class with the prince of Jordan and actually became friends with him. And so [00:12:00] I started that as an example. You know, what do you do when you basically you encounter a situation where you’re suddenly thrust amongst very powerful people. [00:12:11]What ways might you know, you use this, not only to your own benefit, not to sound selfish, but also to the benefit of others as Esther does. So I try to raise questions like that. Song of songs, for example, another one of the Meggie load what does it say about sexuality? You know, we think of, we think of sex and, you know, we think of something, you know, that is, I think he’s still in, still in the modern west. [00:12:35] Due to the influence of, of Christianity for so long, we think of sex as something that you know, is, is taboo. But you know what the song a song say about, you know, sexist is a very healthy sexual relationship. How might this be relevant? How might this differ from, you know, talking to my college students, many of whom come from Catholic strong Catholic backgrounds, how might this differ from what you’ve heard? [00:12:57] How might this be a positive way of understanding, [00:13:00] you know, sexuality? So I do bring that stuff in. I, I bring that stuff in, try to bring it in quite often. And it makes the class much more interesting. Some of the reflection papers I get from students, some of the ways that they answer these are really are really, really profound. [00:13:13] And they, they stick with me just as much as I hope my class sticks with them. [00:13:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:13:19] It’s so interesting to me, how often as a teacher, you learn from your students almost as much as they learn [00:13:25] Adam Stokes: [00:13:25] from you. [00:13:28] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:13:28] So when you’re in that, when you’re in that state and you’re looking at something, a document like the old Testament, and you see some things that the song of songs is a great example of something that, that we can really learn from. [00:13:43] And that can be of benefit of increasing kindness and tolerance towards people who are not the same as you especially, and also immigration was xenophobia. And yet there are times when you look at something like the Bible and you go really, you believe that, you know, don’t eat crustaceans [00:14:00] or, or don’t mix your fabrics or whatever. [00:14:02] So how do we, as modern people incorporate that into our viewpoint of a document, like the old Testament, because some of it frankly, is, is just so jarring. Like don’t, you know, W some of the stuff that’s, that’s pretty violent. And some of the stuff that, that make doesn’t make a lot of sense, like donate crustaceans or whatever, or I’m vegan. [00:14:26] So it’s easy for me not to eat crustaceans and not, and not to pigs, but at the same time, how do we do that? How do we reconcile in our own cells when you, when we see such, such guidance and advice that is so. Dated, I’ll say. [00:14:41] Adam Stokes: [00:14:41] Yeah. Yeah. And I always I do a session on the Abraham tradition in the book of Genesis. [00:14:47] And I always get to that horrible chapter in Genesis 18 where the angels come to Sodom and Gomorrah and lot basically says, you know to the men of the city, you know, I’ll just don’t do [00:15:00] anything to these male angels, but I’ll throw my daughters out of the door to you. So that you can, you can have your way with them. [00:15:06]So, and that’s one of many jarring many jarring scenes in the old Testament. I think the old Testament Hebrew Bible has to be taken like any other historical texts. Now, granted it’s had much more of an influence than some other ancient texts have, but I think as I think Jesus would say, you have to kind of separate the wheat from the shaft recognize. [00:15:28]That, and I think that biblical scholarship having its basis in the European enlightenment and people likes renos, I think it does as well recognize that this is an ancient text written by human beings, that their morals the morals of their time are much different than the morals of our time. [00:15:44] But there’s still stuff that you can wean from this from certain books, Ecclesiastes de Sala songs et cetera that still have value for today and how we interact and how we treat others. So I think excellent [00:16:00] example. I heard a lecture, I can’t remember who gave the lecture but it was a woman who does who’s a class assist and I’m blanking on her name right now. [00:16:08] She did a lecture on the Iliad and basically say, you know This basically the mindset of all these guys in the Elliot, just for, you know, blood bloodshed and plunder that you get with Agamemnon and Achilles. And basically all of them, they’re all kind of all kinds of credit in that regard. [00:16:25]But you can also still take away some moral lessons from, from Homer not just the Elliot, but she was talking about the Odyssey as well. And basically, you know, what does it mean to be a virtuous person ever? She looks different for someone like Achilles or Agamemnon, you know 2,500 years ago. [00:16:45] But I think we can still ask that question as modern people wasn’t mean to be virtuous in our time. What does it mean to be known. In our time. And the, the writings of Homer and the other Creek classics bring these questions to mind. Those questions are timeless. Those questions are eternal [00:17:00] and there’ll be around long after we aren’t. [00:17:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:17:03] Absolutely. I agree with you, the, those questions are timeless. Some of the answers make me cringe, but the questions themselves, you know, all you have to do is look at something like the Oresteia and, and wow. You know, what, what, what happened there was just, you know, wow. So, so when I look at those, when I look at those ancient texts and I look at, you know, oh, you killed my father. [00:17:25] So now I’m going to kill you and this and that. And the, you know, because he’s, he sacrificed the daughter and all of these different things. I look at that. And I go, okay, if quite a Maestra, let’s say she was in that she played, she was the wife in the arse Daya, and she heard her husband, the king sacrificed his daughter, all of these things happen. [00:17:46] And so she was taking revenge, right. She was taking revenge and she also had a lover and all of the it’s a very dramatic and exciting and, and bloody story. Oh yes. So, so, but that’s, that’s what was, [00:18:00] this is, this is going to be a very feminist question. What was the woman’s role here? What kind of power did quite a minister have besides doing what she did in that time? [00:18:11] And how do we, again, as modern people look at these tails and say, okay, this is maybe what quite a master could do. This is what, the path that was open to her or, or the Medea Medea is another great example. What could we do as women. In those times versus what lessons we can learn in modern times from these ancient tales. [00:18:36] Adam Stokes: [00:18:36] Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think that a lot of the Greek tails, especially, I think there’s a subliminal message of sympathy for these women, like climb industrial, like Medea in, you know, saying that, you know, they’re kind of, they’re kind of literally restrained by the culture and the time period that they find themselves in and being married [00:19:00] to these men who have absolute power and are kind of, I think, especially with Agamemnon kind of absolutely narcissists. [00:19:09] Hmm. You know, what else could they do? So I think this is definitely when you read the, when you read the Greek place, Sophocles Europe, cities, et cetera, there is always an edge of, at least in my, at least how I read them of sympathy for these women. You know, cause I’m an Esther, it’s not just this terrible unfaithful, a woman who kills, who kills Agamemnon, who kills her spouse. [00:19:30] But, you know, look at the context that set this up. And I think a lot of the Greek playwrights are saying, you know, let this be a warning of what absolute power does because Agamemnon he destroyed with, he destroyed a lot of people around him and eventually he destroys himself, his actions destroy himself. [00:19:47]And every step he takes to try and gain more power, including sacrificing his daughter eventually leads to his downfall. And I think that that is amazing lesson. For, for today, as we look at the state of the [00:20:00] world and we’re always, you know, wanting to, you know, get more power, get get more attention, get more fame, but, you know, look at, look at what that cost and look how it hurts the people around you. [00:20:11] And I think that goes back, you know, to looking at, you know, how the, the women in these, in these plays are portrayed from a Nestra and Medea. [00:20:20] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:20:20] It’s so interesting. It goes right back to what you said earlier about virtue and what does it mean to be a virtuous person? And now I’m getting into the nitty and the gritty of my, my Greek mythology, and [00:20:34] Adam Stokes: [00:20:34] I can talk to them about this stuff all day. [00:20:36] I [00:20:36] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:20:36] love this. Awesome. So, yeah, because as you, as you might be able to tell I’m a nerd for this. So, so, okay. So take something like the story of Antigony when she’s in that position, she, she claims power. She goes, and she buries her brother and against the King’s wishes. And then she pays obviously a pretty hefty price. [00:20:57] What again, what do we do? [00:21:00] What do we do now? As far as activism, how do we relate that to people wanting like to, to black lives matter movement? The me too movement, all of those movements are those kinds of protests. And in, in, in the, in the ancient plays, there was death to come. Now we are in a, hopefully much more enlightened place, but still we are faced with the same question. [00:21:26] What am I risking if I speak up, what am I risking? If I take action? Like Antigony did. Yeah. [00:21:34] Adam Stokes: [00:21:34] I think that that’s a really good point. And I think, you know, yes, we don’t risk death per se, you know, hopefully not, but I know that, you know, I have some activist friends. I used to teach at a Unitarian seminary way back in the day. [00:21:50] And a lot of my a lot of the students I taught went on to, to be activist. I even had some add in at Charleston in 2017. I don’t know if you recall [00:22:00] that event with with the of course white supremacist but being an activist from what I’ve heard of activists, I, I’m not an activist. [00:22:07]Part of me feels ashamed about that, but I’m not really activist per se. But I admire activist. I greatly admire admire activists. And from what they have told me, it is a, it is a taxing thing. So you don’t, you know, it’s not necessarily that your life is in danger. Sometimes it is sometimes it is, but that the mental burden of, you know, of seeing all the problems in the world and trying to do something about it and feeling like you’re just making, you know, baby steps and, you know, just such small head, you know, Just a little headway. [00:22:41]It’s sometimes, you know really overwhelming. And so I know that, you know, a lot of activist struggle, you know, with issues of issue, issues of mental health. So I think going back to Antigony you know, making, I think that’s a great example because at the end it comes down to what type of decision does she make? [00:22:59] She [00:23:00] can back off and, you know, just have everything go back to normal or she can she can protest and be defined. And what is the cost of that? And I think that’s a, that’s an extremely relevant question, you know, for for today, you know, even, you know, if, if, like I said, there’s no physical harm that comes to you, there is going to be some type of cost when you, when you serve as an activist in the way in, in, in a positive way. [00:23:26] So there is going to be some mental costs, mental toll that it takes on you. And are you, are you ready? You know, are you ready for that? So if that makes sense. Oh, it [00:23:37] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:23:37] absolutely does. And, and it, you know, we, we all have to evaluate for ourselves what we’re going to do and how we’re going to do it for sure. [00:23:45] And I, I do want to say something Adam, that I, that I want to make, I want to make this point very clear. Consider yourself an activist you have taken on. The extremely important job [00:24:00] of teaching the next generation and the next generation and the next generation. If that’s not an activist, I don’t know what it is honestly. [00:24:07] So please do not ever be ashamed of not being perhaps on the frontline at our March. You are an activist every single day. When you walk into the classroom and you help these students, your students discover. And get curious and ask questions and make suppositions and learn that that is if I were, if I were queen honestly or Empress professional basketball players would be making $30,000 a year and teachers were making in the millions. [00:24:35] So, so I, I wanted to say that that’s really important for me that you understand, I hold you in the highest regard because you’ve taken on what I consider to be a sacred [00:24:45] Adam Stokes: [00:24:45] task. Thank you. Thank you. I, I, I definitely, I consider it, you know, sacred as sacred as well. I, my mother was a teacher she taught for 40 years. [00:24:54]And I saw how she influenced people so much even years after. And [00:25:00] literally in the trenches of Baltimore, she literally saved some lives by the direction she was able to put students on. And so I always admired that about her. I mentioned to Mr. Butoh before, so. These are all people that I’ve looked up to. [00:25:12] And I, I definitely, I felt that their calling was sacred and I feel like teachers call them sacred now. And at least in America, I don’t think teachers get enough praise. Oh, not, [00:25:21] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:25:21] not, not even a little I’ve spent, I’ve spent time working with teachers and I go into schools to teach. And one of my other gigs and teachers are heroes. [00:25:30] Every single one of you have. You’re amazing. I, I want to, if it’s okay to switch gears just a little bit and perhaps switch oceans, maybe cross an ocean and let’s cross the Atlantic and let’s talk about ancient civilizations on the north American continent. Honestly, this is something that I I’ve done some research before this interview, but I don’t really know anything about it. [00:25:53] And, and yet I’ve been to snake canyon and I’ve spent time in the Southwest, but I would love to, to [00:26:00] speak with you a little bit about what, what that’s about for you, what sparked your interest in ancient American civilizations and. What are your beliefs about these civilizations? Because there’s some, there’s plenty of stuff we just don’t know. [00:26:15] So, so what do you, what got you started and, and what is your focus about that? [00:26:22] Adam Stokes: [00:26:22] Yeah. Happy to talk about that. So what got me started honestly is where was my where my religious views. And I’ll say a little bit about that. So I was raised Baptist then For most of my life, then when I got to grad school kind of had a crisis of faith. [00:26:39] I didn’t really have any affiliation for a few years. Then spent some time with the Quakers and then joined one of the latter day, Saint movements, not the main one that you know of in Utah. But I’m an elder in a, what’s known as a church of Christ with the Elijah message and all of the latter day, Saint traditions, community of Christ the Utah [00:27:00] church the bicker tonight church we’re all kind of how can I say what the. [00:27:06] Thing that holds us all together is our belief in something called the book of Mormon or the record of the fights as as my denomination calls it. And in that, in the book of Mormon, I’ll just use the more common name. There’s the idea that there were ancient civilizations that existed in north America and that at some point Jesus came and visit. [00:27:28] These ancient civilizations. Now that is a faith claim. I’m not going to argue for that one way or another here on this show, but I will say that it got me very interested in trying to see and trying to research what ancient American civilization was like, because I’m sure it’s probably the same for you, but when I was growing up basically when you asked about ancient American civilization, you were told the pilgrims and they had a nice Thanksgiving meal with the native Americans. [00:27:56] And that was it. Now you knew a little bit about south America [00:28:00] with the Mayans and the inkind, but no inkers, but nobody and the Aztecs, but nobody ever really. Nobody ever really talks about north America pre 1492. So really my my interest in, you know, what can we know about ancient civilizations in America? [00:28:18]Stemming from my kind of religious background made me get into this topic and from my own research, from what I’ve been able to ascertain in north America had had just as much of a rich elaborate culture with a huge empire seeking of the empires of the Hopewell and the Edina peoples, just as extensive, just as amazing as the empires of south America. [00:28:45] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:28:45] That’s fascinating. If that, if that is true, if we have civilizations in sort of more north of, of where the Mayans and the Aztecs and Incas were okay. [00:29:00] I, I let’s see if I can figure out how to ask this question a few years ago, I visited eczema Pueblo in New Mexico, and it’s, it’s the most, it’s the only continuously in existence town or city or community I should say for, since the 11th century. [00:29:17] Right? So, so they’ve been around for a while in part, because they’re so isolated, they’re up on a big rock in the middle of the desert. So, so those folks have been around and we have some sort of continuous records of, of that happening, but, but what are the records that show that, that some of the more in sort of Northern American civilizations were an existence? [00:29:44] When, and again, I don’t, I don’t, I’m, I’m asking, I’m not trying to be in pertinent or anything. I don’t, I’ve never heard of primary sources that talk about the existence of these sorts of civilizations and, and peoples, [00:30:00] as you’re talking about, please enlighten me. [00:30:02] Adam Stokes: [00:30:02] Yeah. That’s, that’s a really good question. [00:30:04] Most people have it. I mean, I hadn’t heard of this until I started doing research for myself. There are not a lot of written records. Now we do have some inscriptions. Some Semitic inscriptions from some of the sites would suggest that some of these early north American campfires came from the near east. [00:30:23] And there’s a lot of debate as to whether these inscriptions are forgeries or if they’re legitimate, I tend to have, I tend to side on the view that they’re legitimate. When you look at them with my background, I have a background in Semitic languages, Hebrew and Aramaic. So But not just a written records mainly through the archeological record. [00:30:41] So one of the things that I do as kind of the geek in me I travel around to various native American mounds. I have often taken my kids. I have a seven year old and a four year old. So I take them with me basically all the time. And they could kind of boil it to like, daddy’s looking at his clumps of dirt again. [00:30:59] But [00:31:00] back in the day, thousands of years ago, they weren’t actually clumps of dirt. They’ve been destroyed by by present president habit, the president habitats of, of, of the region. Now. Back in the day these mounds were huge and some of them were as big as the dimensions of the pyramids of Egypt and in the 19th century as people have still found this stuff, some of this stuff today there were excavated in at a lot of these mounds people or excuse me remains skeletal remains of people who seem to have been rulers are decorated with jewelry with all types of fancy items. [00:31:38]Also seem to have been slightly slightly to somewhat significantly taller than. Then modern human beings presently. So between seven to nine feet. So we know that these people were royalty of some type. They seem to rule the region around them, them. And we have this, not only from what we’ve been [00:32:00] able to determine from the archeological record, but also from just a tradition of native Americans, native Americans talk about people. [00:32:06] Well who were there, who were here before and contemporaneous with their ancestors and how these people basically. Yeah, basically we’re the rulers of, of these different civilizations that you have in the Midwest and in the great lakes region et cetera. So short answer to your, to your question, to your really good question. [00:32:28]The archeological evidence and the oral traditions of the native Americans seem to strongly point to a acid empire in north America. [00:32:42] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:32:42] I grew up in Michigan and lived there until after I graduated from the university of Michigan. And one of the places that we went to was serpent mound. And and so that, and I remember being there and I could feel the energy of the place was different when you were nearby there, it was, [00:33:00] it just felt different than when you were a few miles away. [00:33:03] And so I, you know, they say that it’s, that it was one of them was created by the Edina culture in like 500, 800 BC to somewhere around there. Can you talk about what the significance, because we don’t exactly know why that serpent mound is there and I’m going to have to find a picture of it and put it up in the show notes for this, because. [00:33:27] You know, you, you can see that it’s there when you’re there, but really it’s best seen from above. So, so can you talk about what the significance of the serpent mound is? Well, what is it first of all and what the significance of it is to someone like you, who studies north American ancient [00:33:44] Adam Stokes: [00:33:44] cultures? [00:33:45] Certainly, certainly. I have not. Sadly I haven’t been to the serpent man. I’ve been to some others. I’ve been to the new work earthworks. I’ve been to the Fort ancient mound. I’ve been to the Edina mound in Kentucky. But I have not yet gone to the surfer mal, but it’s something that I hope to [00:34:00] do. [00:34:00]Maybe a summer road trip with the kids. I will, I will do it. But yeah, the serpent mound is one of the longest Stretches just by it’s by by feet, one of the longest, the mounts that exists in north America. And as you said, it’s attributed to the Edina people who live between 500 BCE. [00:34:20] And I believe a hundred CE depending some people debate that some people say 500 BCE to 400 CE. They’re saying two major cultures in that region, your team and the hope. Well, and they seem to have fought with each other. We don’t actually know their original names. Hopewell and Edina were much later names given to them named after the people who who basically found found their relics. [00:34:45]So we don’t know what their original names were. But yeah. So this serpent mound yeah. It’s, yeah, it’s pretty amazing. It’s really something that you can only see really well, just like the new work mound from above when you’re actually there. [00:35:00] You you can’t really see it very well. But we don’t know why that that circuit is there. [00:35:05] There’s a, there’s a bunch of theories about that that this circuit may represent some form of Gnosticism or Gnostic religion amongst the Edina. The Edina, I should mention along with the hope. Well, a lot of people, including myself, have speculated that their origins come from the near east. [00:35:23] So this could represent a reference to the biblical serpent tradition. Where you had you have the circuit featuring featuring prominently the beginning of the old Testament in the books of Genesis or it could be the Gnostic serpent who provides who provides wisdom. So in the ancient, near east in ancient, near Eastern context, serpents, as well as women were understood as harbingers of wisdom. [00:35:48] That’s why in the Genesis story, he is talking to the serpent. The serpent’s not interested in the guy because a servant doesn’t feel like the dude is all that wise, but he is talking to the woman because they’re kindred spirits because [00:36:00] they’re both seen as harbingers of wisdom. So a lot of scholars Zelda have said, you know, we’re not sure what all of these mounds symbolized, but they were possibly used for ceremony or religious purposes and maybe some type of Gnostic ritual, Gnostic, religious purpose. [00:36:18] Was was evident at the serpent mound. But something, I think this points to basically a large issue, she, that, you know, a lot more work now you have great archeologists in the field of American archeology, gee, but a lot of this stuff has really kind of, kind of been overlooked. And you know, I think when you get to the mountains, a lot of archeologists are content with the, with the explanation that they’re just ceremonial and don’t really go into more depth with them. [00:36:46] So I think that a lot of the new researchers out there, including myself are trying to, you know, really get into this and say, you know, yes, we see that there’s this funky symbol here, but what can we possibly determine about it? Is it more [00:37:00] than just if it is ceremonial, what is a ceremony per se? Can we reconstruct any idea of what of the religious use of, you know, this particular Mount site or that particular Mount site. [00:37:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:37:14] I’m taking it all in for a second. Cause there’s, there’s so much to what you just said. So here I am, I am looking at the serpent mound or some of the other bandolier in, in New Mexico. Some of these places where people have left an indelible mark, that they were there, whether or not we know what it meant, somebody went, I’m going to, I’m going to let you know I’m going to have this, you know, for posterity, if you will. [00:37:41] Not that they necessarily meant to do that, but it was, it was a way of marking what was happening there. And a few years I go to Ireland a lot. And when, when we were traveling, et cetera, et cetera. But yes, I go to Ireland a lot and I’ve spent time at the hill of Tara and it’s and Newgrange. And, [00:38:00] and so Newgrange is 5,000 years old, or even older than that, maybe 7,000 years old. [00:38:04] I believe it’s 5,000 BCE is when it was built over, over time, of course, but Well, again, there are things there that when you, when you’re there, there, there are at the, at the winter solstice in Newgrange, for example, you are going to see the sun shine in at the winter solstice. And the two days around that date, the shines in all the way down 90 meters into the central alternatives, the only time of the year, it does that. [00:38:33] So they knew to build it that way. And the same thing happens on the equinoxes into loom in Mexico, the same kind of somebody went, you know what? We honor this so much that we’re going to make this happen and Stonehenge and other such structures, if you will. So do we have any instance of this in. [00:38:58] This part of Mexico. Yes. [00:39:00] But, but we’re talking here specifically about sort of, I think the America’s in the north American part of north America. And I hope, I didn’t just say something really insulting to anyone who lives in Mexico, but I, I guess what, what would now be considered the United States or Canada? [00:39:14] Do we have anything like that? Here that we can point to and go, yeah. There, somebody put, thought that sort of thought into this, this the placement of, of these mounds or these or these structures. [00:39:30] Adam Stokes: [00:39:30] Oh, yes. So there is a researcher Sarah Farmer, and she goes into kind of into much more detail than I can about basically the astrological alignment of many of these mounds. [00:39:42]And she argues that both with the solar lunar calendar they are aligned so many of these seem to be astronomically aligned. So suggesting that, you know exactly the exact There was an exact specific purpose to building these mounds. Last October I [00:40:00] was for a church conference in Kentucky and I got to see, I mentioned this before the Edina mound there and the Edina Mount in Kentucky in Lexington, Kentucky is really interesting because you can’t see it any, you can’t see this exactly any more because the river is dried up. [00:40:15] But thousands of years ago, there was a river that ran parallel. To the man. So there’s a small mound, there’s a river, then there’s a small man and then there’s a bigger Mount next to it. And this is interesting because we know some people some other scholars have written on this as well. [00:40:35]Such as Dr. Greg little but the river was seen not just in native American thought, but you get this in the Bible as well as the transition between life and death. So it is believed that the river was either the river of pre mortality where the soul slowly start to make, makes it makes its way into the worlds. [00:40:58] The so moves from the river to the [00:41:00] small amount. And then the big man which represents human existence, or it could be the opposite way of the so leaving. The physical the physical realm with the big mound Benchley entering the realm of the dead and then crossing over in to the afterlife with the river. [00:41:17] We’re not quite sure either interpretation could could be argued for. But in that instance I think is an excellent example where this Mount is where you have Mount building. That seems to be deliberately planned. They deliberately plan to build this mound near this river to kind of reflect a, a spiritual, a spiritual belief. [00:41:36] They had [00:41:37] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:41:37] some sort of a crossing over like the river [00:41:38] Adam Stokes: [00:41:38] sticks. Yes, exactly. In Greek mythology. That’s a really good example. [00:41:43] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:41:43] So going back to this, this, this notion of the modern lessons that we can learn, I, I was at a conference many years ago with Daniel Hillel. I don’t know if you know who he is, biblical scholar and soil scientist. [00:42:00] [00:41:59] And one of the things that he said. Was that when you look at the old Testament in the Aramaic, that it’s not dominion over the earth and the animals that it’s more like stewardship or caretaking, and it changes everything. If you, if you start describing that, that, that the notion of being caretakers, rather than having dominion over our environment, over the beans we share the planet with it changes that notion of virtue and that notion of how, how responsible we are not to, but for all of the different, incredible natural resources we have. [00:42:36] So when you’re working and you’re an Aramaic scholar and a Hebrew scholar, when you’re working on something like that, when you’re looking at these old documents, can you talk a little bit about that notion of, am I choosing the right words? What do I have to do to make sure that I bring across the actual meaning. [00:42:56] Of what is being said when something like dominion versus [00:43:00] stewardship or caretaking has made such a significant difference in how many people view our relationship to the planet we live on. [00:43:08] Adam Stokes: [00:43:08] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there’s a really kind of, I think it’s an excellent example of kind of a negative history of interpretation. [00:43:15]People taking the Hebrew term actually is Michele. So it means like exactly, like you said, nurturing. Tender care for the environment. And you see this elsewhere in the Hebrew Torah in Leviticus, this is something I talk about with my, with my students in my old Testament class, this environmental ethos that Leviticus has that we read Leviticus, we read Leviticus 18 and we’re like, oh crap. [00:43:42] There’s a lot of stuff in Leviticus that yeah, that is problematic. But the thing that goes overlooked and I try to emphasize this for my students. I’m like, don’t, don’t just skip Leviticus because in the video case, yes, you got, you had some bad stuff, but also in Leviticus you have this really strong environmental ethos where the [00:44:00] children of Israel, the  Israel are supposed to take care of nurture the land. [00:44:07] And if they don’t if they don’t tend to the land and the land needs. They are punished by God for doing that. So it’s a much different view than what has kind of emerged from Western readings of the Bible. We tend to interpret we intend to interpret that language as I think, you know, it’s a misreading really that comes from Greek and Latin translations of the Hebrew Bible, reading Michelle reading, excuse me, sorry. [00:44:34] Reading my law for Michelle. So I’m a lock means to rule. This is where we get the word Malek king from. So to rule over and have dominion that gets translated in the Septuagint. And in the Vulgate as to Lord over. So dominatrix in in Latin. But that is not what you get in the original in the original Hebrew. [00:44:56]And so I try to, wherever I see [00:45:00] stuff like that, I try to emphasize and highlight that in my discussion with students and also in my book, there’s a chapter in perspectives that deals with kind of the environmental ethos of, of the old Testament. And I think there’s a way to navigate that if you give to students too much Hebrew, if they didn’t go to Hebrew school or something, they’re going to get overwhelmed. [00:45:19] But I think that in instances where, you know, I think this is an excellent example that you brought up where it is definitely relevant and has had, you know, the fairest consequences in the way it’s been interpreted. I think you can bring in Hebrew and the, the students are able, are able to understand that and they feel really good because they feel like they know a little bit. [00:45:36] Yeah. [00:45:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:45:38] And I lived in Israel for seven months when I was a child and, and a Hebrew is not an easy language, so it’s really, it’s it’s wonderful. Now, nowadays I can say  and Ken and lo and that’s it. That’s all I remember. But, but let’s, let’s talk a little bit, actually, if you don’t mind about some of your [00:46:00] publishing work, when, when you’re, when you’re doing it I I’ve written books and I got to tell ya non-academic publishing is very different than academic publishing. [00:46:09] Can you talk a little bit about, cause I know there’s this notion of publisher parish and all of that, but can you talk a little bit about what academic publishing is and what your experience of it has been. [00:46:22] Adam Stokes: [00:46:22] Yes. Yes. So academic publishing is I would totally agree with you. I’m Izolda is a whole different ball game than non-academic publishing, just because you have, how can I put it, your subject? [00:46:40] Your, your topic is so limited. So even if you’re dealing with the Hebrew Bible or the old Testament, most people who are writing about it are specialized in their particular field. So my work I didn’t finish my PhD, but when I was working on my PhD, my subs, my focus was on the book of job. [00:46:58] Now here’s the problem, [00:47:00] which is that everybody who has a specialty in your field is trying to write a book on the book of job, same thing in the classics. So. There’s a district joke among class assists that, you know, everything that’s been written about Homer has, has already been written. So there’s no need to write anything else. [00:47:17]But there’s more stuff published on Homer and on the Iliad and the Odyssey than in any other academic field, including the sciences and cleaning biblical studies et cetera. So you’re always trying to your big task is to try and find something creative and new within a field that within a topic that has been written on extensively. [00:47:39]And a lot of times you’re not gonna really be able to find anything super new or super innovative, but what you can find Izolda is that what you can do is bring your own perspective. To it, a perspective that hasn’t been brought to brought to the material before I think in the classics that you see a [00:48:00] great example of this in several recent publications, several recent translations of the India and the Odyssey done by women, Emily, Montgomery. [00:48:08] Yeah, I believe. But just you know, kind of taking, you know, her experiences as a female class assistant, bringing that to her translation of the Greek and you start to see things, you start to at least start to look at the texts in a way that you haven’t you haven’t ever looked at the text before. [00:48:27] So that is the main challenge. That is the main challenge. To to writing in academia. The second challenge is that everything in academia for good or bad gets peer reviewed. So I remember the first project I ever worked on was a commentary for same book I’m actually working on. [00:48:48] Now I’m doing a project on now. I mentioned before for the NRSV but the. There was a commentary that I was writing for a book called the Africana [00:49:00] Bible, which was basically black American perspectives on the old Testament. And I had to write on the additions of Daniel, which is one of the books of the Apocrypha, which is included in the Greek Bible, but it’s not part of the original Hebrew text. [00:49:14] I wrote my contribution. I had worked on it for several months. I wrote it in 2006 and it went through multiple peer reviews to the point that the final work wasn’t published till around 2010. So it can take a really long time with all of the reviews and edits to get, to get something published. [00:49:38]Now the good thing about publishing in academia, I’ve been working with something a publisher called Nella press for about three or four years now. Wonderful. Wonderful. Wonderful printing press. They have some great academic stuff. And the great thing about working with an academic publishing is that usually if you have a good publisher, like I have, [00:50:00] they’re going to give you access to all types of resources that you wouldn’t have even in your own home library. [00:50:06] So you get to access databases with thousands of thousands of things. And so you have basically a plethora of resources from which to kind of formulate your own work. But it’s not an easy process. There’s a lot of peer review this, a lot of them saying, you know, this, distincts go back, fix this up, submit it again. [00:50:29] Over and over and over again. But if you get through it it can be, it can be a very rewarding experience. [00:50:35] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:50:35] So interesting that you said that I’m glad it’s a rewarding experience. It would make me tear my hair out just because what happens when someone says, oh, this part is bad or this part is good or whatever, whatever the corrections or notes that they have, what if you disagree or is it incumbent upon you to change it because they said you had to, or can you sort of stick to your guns and go, no, I really believe this. [00:50:57] You [00:50:57] Adam Stokes: [00:50:57] know, that’s a, that’s a great question. [00:51:00] A lot of times what I have learned sometimes the hard way is to pick and choose your own battles. Sometimes. If I feel very strongly about something. So there was a whole article that I wanted to put into my perspective of the old Testament book on Deborah, who is one of the female judges in the old Testament. [00:51:21]And there was a little bit of a pushback, you know, why can’t we have an article that talks about, you know, the judges in general while I was like, my specific point is to, you know, highlight a female judge. Now we’ve all heard of Samson. We’ve heard of Samuel, but we haven’t heard of Deborah that much. [00:51:35] So I pushed back on that and I was able to get it. Into my Valium. Other times I’ve submitted stuff and I’ve been, you know, I’ve been like, you know, this work is, is so important. I at least want to get this subject matter. I just want to get this perspective out that what pops out, what ends up on the printed page looks significantly different than what I first wrote down, but [00:52:00] that I was able to get the general idea out. [00:52:01] I made some compromises, but I was able to get the general idea. So you gotta, you have to pick and choose your battles. Hmm. [00:52:08] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:52:08] Yeah, again, that would make me tear my hair out. So this is, this is sort of shifting gears just a little bit if it’s okay. Sure. This is a little bit about the tools of your, of your trade. [00:52:20] So you’re, you’re a scholar and your teacher and you’re an author. And all of that is great. I worked at NASA for many years and one of the things that I remember fascinating me a few years ago, I heard about using satellite data. They were able to due to the amount of phosphorus in soil in a certain spot that wasn’t supposed to have any kind of premium. [00:52:43]Town or village on it, they found an entire village hidden under 30 feet of soil, essentially. So when you’re doing that, and to me, that’s super exciting because then they were able to find all of these incredible sort of archaeological mysteries solved because of [00:53:00] why, why was there so much phosphorus? [00:53:01] Oh, that’s because there was a human settlement there. So, so what are the tools that you as a scholar use, are you using that kind of, of, you know, LIDAR or some other kind of satellite data to learn about some of these ancient historical places in, in north America? Or are you finding your sources being secondary sources and you go from what some of the other data collectors have [00:53:27] Adam Stokes: [00:53:27] done Haley secondary sources is ODA, mainly secondary sources. [00:53:32]LIDAR is amazing, but usually you have to be working within the context of academia. To have resources for that professors tenured professors spend years writing grants just to get access to that stuff. I, I don’t have that type of access. I have, I do teach at in an academic institution but I don’t have that type of access. [00:53:54] So a lot of my work comes from what some dude with a light, with a LIDAR ground penetrating [00:54:00] radar has done and written up about his or her research. And so I do that a lot of my stuff is very much old school. I have various Books on the subject by experts, many of those experts in my friends. [00:54:14] So I will contact them and say, you know, Hey, you wrote this, is this what you meant? Or what can you tell me about this? So I basically have a bunch of, you know, concurrences and in fact, a PDF as an articles basically in my library at home that I use. But I also, I, I do the millennial in me also uses digital sources as well. [00:54:36]But that’s more limited than say if I was a tenured professor, I have access to some of that stuff. But not as much as if I was a tenured professor. And again, the nice thing. Once you start writing for a particular publisher they will give you what would cost you normally hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to have a subscription, to something like J store or something like that [00:55:00] they will give you access to that. [00:55:01] So I try to take advantage. Whenever I can. [00:55:05] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:55:05] Okay. Cause I was just wondering it’s it’s so I remember doing some of that work when I worked at NASA and seeing some of the results and just, I thought it was so fascinating to watch finding those kinds of, of touchstones. I, I guess I’ll say to, to these ancient peoples is incredible. [00:55:26] Have you found anything that has just proven false? Have you gone? Oh, I had my hopes up and this is just wrong. This is just not supported at all. [00:55:36] Adam Stokes: [00:55:36] Yes. Yes. So there was we should have been proven wrong before. There was a Finding in the late 18 hundreds known as the Kindle hook plates, which were supposed to be re was supposed to be a written document about the history of ancient America. [00:55:51] There’s a whole story background story with Joseph Smith in the Mormon church with these plates and people over the years, they were proved [00:56:00] to be hoaxes basically in like a year or so after they were supposedly found. But people through the years have tried to argue for them for their authenticity. [00:56:10]And I really don’t see it, which is disappointing because it would be really cool if they were real, because it gives more insight into the history of, of ancient America. But I don’t think that they are and you’re, and you’re gonna, that’s going to happen a lot of times. So sometimes just going to find a dead end and the best thing you can do is just turn around and try again. [00:56:29]But overall, I’ve been more amazed by what I have been able to find. That’s turned out to be legitimate or, you know, have some. Something that can be verified rather than something that proves to be false. [00:56:48] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:56:48] So what’s next for you? I know that you’re in the middle of writing a book and you’re also teaching w if you could do anything, if, what, what would you be doing right now? [00:56:57] What, what, what dig would you be on? What [00:57:00] writing would you be doing? [00:57:01] Adam Stokes: [00:57:01] I would be probably at a, I’d probably be at the serpent mound or one of the mountains, Mississippi. Doing doing research there if I could be anywhere right now. So I would love native American mounts is, is something in the past couple of years that I’ve kind of become my obsession. [00:57:18] So I would love to love to be doing that. But yeah, at the present time I am working, like I mentioned the, on the on the project, the commentary on the additions to Daniel for a new project with the NRSV I’m also a monthly contributor to a magazine ancient American magazine. [00:57:38]So I have an upcoming an upcoming. A segment in there on the low side Luna’s stone, which people have argued as a hoax, but there’s seems to be a lot of evidence in its favor. And I talk about that. And then I’m always my a latter day Saint faith is very, very important to me. So I’m always kind of writing either reviewing somebody else’s book or giving my own [00:58:00] insights into a latter day, Saint history and theology. [00:58:04] So those are the main things that that I’m working on that I’m working on right now. [00:58:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:58:10] That’s lovely. Very cool. Well, I, I know that I, I, you and I could be geeking out about mythology for the next six hours, but I know you have a life and a day to get back to, so, so I would love it. If you would do me a favor and can you give sort of your social media links or where, if somebody wanders to know more about your work or follow you online, would you mind just giving those so that I’ll put them in the show notes, but it’s always really helpful to have more than one way of finding the information. [00:58:37] Adam Stokes: [00:58:37] Absolutely. Absolutely. So I have in addition to being a full-time Latin teacher high school, I’m also a Latin tutor and I have a webpage for my business on Facebook. If you go to Facebook and type in lingua, Classica, that’s the name of my business. And I put in a lot of my work and just general stuff about Greek roots [00:59:00] and yeah, Greco, Roman mythology on that side. [00:59:02]So there’s a lot of fun stuff on that side. If you’re just interested in the Greco-Roman world. I put stuff on there all the time, and then I also have an Instagram account Adam, the giant guy where I put photos of different mounts that I’ve visited. I put up information about ancient north America and also some fun stuff as well. [00:59:21] So there’s pictures of my kids and stuff on there as well. So those are the two, those are my two main social media. [00:59:29] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:59:29] Fabulous. That’s wonderful. Thank you so much for doing that, Adam. You know, it’s interesting. I’m in the middle of revising my next book and it’s a mystery novel and Roman mythology plays a role and I had to translate from English into Latin and it’s too bad. [00:59:44] I didn’t know you back then because it wouldn’t be, my Latin is probably just atrocious. So you might not ever want to read the book, but [00:59:51] Adam Stokes: [00:59:51] I would love to read the book. [00:59:54] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:59:54] Yeah. Roman mythology plays a big role in the books, so but but yeah, it was really, [01:00:00] it was fascinating to go. How on earth do I translate something that is very much modern sounding the Lang I was speaking in modern English. [01:00:08] Yes. And have it sound properly conjugated and the appropriate translation into Latin. And I’m sure that I’m way off. Oh, well, [01:00:19] Adam Stokes: [01:00:19] well, I was just have to go look at it and I’ll criticize you if you are, [01:00:23] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:00:23] but it won’t be, I reviewed because you obviously know so much more about this than I do. You’re not like I’m not your peer you’re way past your way past what I, what I know how to do. [01:00:32] Well, Adam, I want to thank you so much for being on the show and for taking the time to talk about this. This is it’s so fascinating to see how these ancient peoples and ancient knowledge can be really informative to us today. I’m so grateful that you took the time. [01:00:48] Adam Stokes: [01:00:48] My pleasure. I love talking about this uptight. [01:00:50] Thank you so much for having me. It was, oh, [01:00:53] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:00:53] it was absolutely a delight. I have this one last question that I want to ask. It’s a silly little question, but I find [01:01:00] that it, it yields some poignant answers and here’s the question. Are [01:01:03] Adam Stokes: [01:01:03] you ready? Certainly I will go for it. All right. [01:01:05] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:01:05] So if you had a plane that could sky write anything for the whole world to see, what would you say. [01:01:16] Adam Stokes: [01:01:16] I think, I would say carpet diem in the words of Robin Williams seize the day. And the reason I would say that is because so often we spent so much of our lives, you know, thinking. That things will happen to us. I’m not saying that good things won’t happen to us, but a lot of times I’ve been guilty of this in the past. [01:01:37]When we take initiative, we will be surprised at how doors opened up for us. So don’t be afraid to, you know, get all out of your day. [01:01:46] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:01:46] Oh, I love that. And I love that you quoted dead poet’s society. It’s one of my favorite movies. Oh, such a brilliant, brilliant movie. And if you haven’t seen it, I’m going to put a link to that in the show notes too, because if you haven’t seen it, you need it. [01:01:59] Adam Stokes: [01:01:59] What are [01:02:00] those films you need to see before you die? Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, [01:02:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [01:02:02] completely. Really just tremendous. And when I was talking to you about professor Cameron at the university of Michigan, he was that kind of professor, the kind of teacher Robin Williams is in dead poet’s society. Cameron was that kind of teacher at the university of Michigan. [01:02:14] So that’s awesome. I highly recommend the movie and also go find the works of Adam Stokes and the works of HD Cameron. And. Read the Odyssey, because it’s a great story, regardless of anything else. It’s a cool story. All right. This is all the Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset podcast. I hope that you’ve enjoyed today’s show. [01:02:35] And if you have, I would love it. If you would rate and review the podcast, let me know what you’re thinking. Let me know about episodes that I need to have on the show. As you can tell, I’m willing and ready and hopefully able to geek out about all sorts of topics until next time. Once again, this is Izolda. [01:02:51] Trakhtenberg reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot. [01:03:01] [01:03:00] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you’re new and if you like what you’re hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people. And if you’d like to be a sponsor of the show, I’d love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset. [01:03:19] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today’s episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg in his copyright 2021 as always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.