Book Publishing Expert, Angela Engel On How She’s Innovating That Industry To Help Authors Get Their Books Out Into The World

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Angela Engel is an entrepreneur and book publishing expert with over twenty years of experience in the publishing industry. After working for 20 years in the publishing industry and with major publishing companies including Chronicle Books, Ten Speed Press, Cameron + Company, Dwell Studio, and Moleskine, Angela is on a mission to disrupt the publishing industry by giving budding authors more agency and authority in the publishing process. As founder of The Collective Book Studio, she provides authors the support they need to get a book out into the world.

Founder and CEO of The Collective Book Studio, a partnership publisher working to pair authors’ vision with quality book production in the areas of lifestyle, gift, and children’s books.

Here’s a recent Publisher’s Weekly article about the studio and how it’s disrupting the publishing industry.

Connect with Angela

Website: https://thecollectivebook.studio/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecollectivebookstudio/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angela-engel-48b3a81b/

 

 

 

Episode Transcript

Angela Engel

[00:00:00] Angela Engel: [00:00:00] They have to, if they want trade distribution, the willing for this feedback, be willing for the work, be willing to say, Hey, you know what? All of sales, all of marketing, all of editorial is looking at this and the title and the cover really have to have this element. In order for it to work in the market.

[00:00:25] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:00:25] Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I’m your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you.

[00:00:43] Focus meditate and even sleep. I love it. And I’ve been using it to write, create and do some of my deepest work because you’re a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset. To check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the [00:01:00] coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word.

[00:01:02] And now let’s get to the show.

[00:01:09] Hey there and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I am super happy that you’re here. I’m thrilled and honored. And so, so, so happy to welcome this week’s guest. She, and I’ve just been chatting before we started recording. And I know this is going to be a super fun conversation.

[00:01:27] And you know what, Angela, I didn’t ask you exactly how to say your last name. So I’m just going to try it. Angela Engel is an entrepreneur and book publisher expert with over 20 years of experience in the publishing industry. After working for 20 years in the publishing industry and with major publishing companies, including chronics.

[00:01:44] 10 speed, press Cameron and company dwell studio. And Moleskine, Angela’s on a mission to disrupt the publishing industry by giving budding authors more agency and authority in the publishing process. And you know how close that is to my heart was six books to my name and three more in the pipeline as [00:02:00] founder of the.

[00:02:01] The book studio, she provides authors the support. They need to get a book out into the world. She’s the founder and CEO of the collective book studio. And it’s a partnership publisher working to pair author’s vision with quality book production in the areas of lifestyle gift and children’s books.

[00:02:16] Angela, I am so glad that you are here. Welcome.

[00:02:20] Angela Engel: [00:02:20] Thank you. I know you pronounce my name perfectly. 

[00:02:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:02:22] Yay. I was, I was a little concerned and I was like, I normally ask and completely, completely forgot because we were, so I was so excited to be talking to him. We were having such a great conversation that everything went out of my head.

[00:02:34] So first of all, Wow that you’re doing this. We were just talking about the fact that there are authors so many authors like me, the DIY people who are self publishing, who’ve been crying for what you are offering your you’re building a name for yourself and the studio in the collective book studio in publishing.

[00:02:57] And you’re doing it in a way that’s really in many [00:03:00] ways disrupting the industry yet. Again, I would love if you would talk a little bit about what you are trying to do, what is the mission of the collective book studio?

[00:03:11] Angela Engel: [00:03:11] That’s a, that’s a big question. I know, but, um, you know, I have, as you said, I’ve had a career of over 20 years in the space.

[00:03:20] I’m, you know what? I was a young, young thing, right out of college, a comparative lit and creative writing. I loved books. I mean, who does it? Right? Especially in the, in the journalism field and the creative writing field and the English major, all of our stuff. And we, you know, our dream is to work in publishing and I got my dream.

[00:03:40] I got really lucky. I was, you know, 20 what, one or two when I graduated and I drove down to San Francisco and I applied for this job at publishers group west, which is now bought by Ingram. We all know who Ingram is. It’s a huge. Mega, um, whole wholesaler and obviously self publishing knows a lot about Ingram.

[00:04:00] [00:04:00] And, and, um, I got my first job there and in that was like this champion of independent presses and small presses. And I actually had a great job. Great boss. Her name was trig McCloud and she came from Broadway books in New York. She had been Cindy Crawford’s publicist, and I think she saw in me, honestly, that’s he young?

[00:04:21] That I could do what I wanted to do, but she sort of was like, I’m going to sort of mentor you and let you ride the wave. And I got to ride two campaigns with her. One was the four agreements, which was, as we all know, a New York times bestseller and continues to be an incredible book. Um, and then the other one was when nine 11 hit was Noam Chomsky’s book by seven stories and watching, watching her champion, these small independent presses become New York times bestseller.

[00:04:51] Um, was just magical, right? Cause, cause you brought in your editorial, your publisher, the writer, like all of, and then distribution and all the [00:05:00] ways to make this successful and honestly compete with the big five publishing houses. And then, um, at that same time, there’s something called Amazon. Oh yes. And, uh, they were really just a book retailer, right?

[00:05:15] Like it was like Amazon and Walden pond in the mall. Right? Like, like where did you go buy books? Right. Barnes and noble was like the big, big thing borders. And there was like some Walden bonds. And there was Amazon that was like starting to be a book retailer. Right. And at that same time, it was also like, Hmm, maybe urban Outfitters or anthropology or pirates should start selling books.

[00:05:40] And I started just this sort of, uh, career path with, even in the publishing space, carving out for myself, becoming a specialist. And how do we sell books outside of the book trade. Right. And partly how you do that is packaging is the, is, is the way the book looks. Cause you don’t, [00:06:00] you have to remember.

[00:06:01] You’re writing for someone else, right? In many ways you have to understand your audience and your audience and your end, the buyer. Sometimes the person who buys the book is completely different than your audience. And so understanding that package is really key. Um, so my mission was let’s jump ahead.

[00:06:22] Three years ago when I had been back, you know, I have, you know, my career was interesting partly because, you know, I’m a mom of three girls and you know, how are we going to, I’m pregnant with my third baby and I’m at a big trade show. And I’m like, God, I can’t keep like, pumping like this. And I got two kids at home.

[00:06:40] So, you know, I S I, I quit and I stopped consulting. And in this time of consulting, There was this boom of self publishing. And, um, and I understood, I understood why people were going that route, but I saw also an issue when it came to understanding the full, [00:07:00] um, reason for traditional publishing is so sacred.

[00:07:04] One being, um, the craft as the book, the topography, the editorial, you know, everything, the illustrations and, and then also the distribution. So I wanted to find a company that could offer something completely different than Amazon can ever offer, which is people ask me this all the time. Do I have to sign an NDA?

[00:07:26] I’m like, there’s no NDA to sign it’s people. Like, how do you can, I mean, you could, you can’t really recreate Angela or Dean Burrell or Elizabeth Saki, like any of my staff. So you get to work with people who have been experts in this field for decades. Yeah. So that’s sort of the mission is how did, how did like people, you know, I would welcome agent at work and we use agents for illustrators it’s not necessary right these days.

[00:07:57] And so how can we make [00:08:00] sure that people are being, having access to publishing and not having to wait three to four years to get on a list or develop a huge, huge pro. Profile and, you know, Instagram following and all the other hurdles that are, that are, that are existing. Now, my model is different, right?

[00:08:19] And people do have to invest in their work. Our royalties are also much higher, so it’s just a give and take why I call it partnership publishing.

[00:08:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:08:31] I’m taking all of that in for a second. That was a lot, uh, I asked a big question. You gave a big answer. So here, here’s the thing I love. I love the notion of partnership publishing and w w I, I hear what the collective book studio brings to the table. How much pushback do you get from the more traditional ways of publishing?

[00:08:58] Like the big five. [00:09:00] What, what, what kind of reception or are you getting from the more traditional spaces?

[00:09:07] Angela Engel: [00:09:07] Oh, They had just like cheered on my colleagues are awesome. I mean, they, like, we just signed Fran Hauser, incredible, incredible, uh, woman. Um, and she had a New York times bestseller myth of the nice girl.

[00:09:25] It was just an, I just, my big win this week was there was an article in publishers, weekly in our trade magazine, in the print and digital. That, uh, the clinic of Brooke studio is trying a new approach and we were the keynote breakfast speaker, Pamela and Rocco, uh, for Columbia, which isn’t an institution, right?

[00:09:44] It’s the California Alliance of booksellers. We were the keynote at their breakfast, her and Topeka up. And why is because I’m saying to the world, Hey, I’m not I’m, I’m just saying let’s [00:10:00] figure out. How Amazon could not control. The distribution piece, because when you’re self publishing, you’re really kind of also, although you own your IP and you have all this control, you’re actually giving many of it over to Amazon.

[00:10:17] Right? If you think about it, because you know, there’s definitely ways bookstores can sell you when you go through Ingram and income spark that said you don’t have a massive team behind you selling your book into what I mean, you’re in Brooklyn. So. Books are magic. Amazing. Right? The and amazing green apples.

[00:10:38] So I’m such a huge champion. I think that goes back to by activism. Right. We kind of talked to them. I am such an activist that I’m like, I am not going to leave my small booksellers behind. Right. Like I personally only buy my books on bookshop.org. That’s what I that’s my purse. Now. I can’t say we can’t say [00:11:00] that to everybody, but for me, I believe that the small acts we choose to do change.

[00:11:06] The trajectory of our lives because we’re, we’re teaching our community, we’re teaching our kids. So for me, I just decided, oh, what is my small act? I sometimes can’t run into every small little bookstore and busy with my three kids, but I can click a button and buy a, buy a book on bookshop.org.

[00:11:26] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:11:26] I love that so much.

[00:11:27] That makes me, so I know seriously, it’s like, yay. Good, good for you. And, and I think that, that, that, that notion of small acts adding up to big changes is so it’s key in, in, in many ways, in, in the ways so many authors have to do things. And it seems like it’s key to the way the collective book studio is doing it.

[00:11:48] And you’re disrupting you’re you’re, you’re a disruptor. Because you’re providing more pathways for authors to get published. And, and yet like, as a, as a self-published author [00:12:00] myself, one of the things that has happened when I’ve tried to do it is stores and, and, you know, first of all, getting into libraries is very challenging.

[00:12:09] The ALA is like, yeah, I don’t think so. Uh, but, but at the same time, they often don’t want to talk to you unless you have some sort of a company behind you. How does, how does the collective book studio. Maneuver in, in that space, like, because you have distribution, the smaller stores out there, more independent booksellers are willing to talk to you, or is there some other pathway that you can follow that just a single person might not be able.

[00:12:39] Angela Engel: [00:12:39] Um, no we have full distribution is you’ve got you have to. So we’re we partnered with, um, independent publishers group out of Chicago. They also own Chicago review press and triumph books to great companies. I personally am a huge fan of Chicago review, press. And I honestly, we started as a packager. I’m going to [00:13:00] backup like the collective book studio.

[00:13:01] What is a packager is we will create books and then we will sell them to other publishing houses, less that have distribution. It’s very common in the industry or we’ll do proprietary work. Like we’re doing these beautiful big custom board books for Costco. So we’re, we’re we’re, this is very common, actually like a lot of publishers, 20 to plus percent of their list is, uh, is buy-ins or PA or pack from packagers.

[00:13:31] Um, we also, we also create creative content. We have a whole series called the secrets thoughts of, and it’s just us writing it. And it’s like in cats and dogs, it’s really cool. P w what I said in this article at PW is that we act actually very similar to a traditional house. When I, when I connected with Joe Matthews, I’m already saying, Hey, we are traditional publishing.

[00:13:55] We are, we have content to fuel our trade list. Um, that you’re going to [00:14:00] get revenue on. And in addition, I’m going to bring incredible clients with me that we vet that we have, uh, that they have a lot of say, but ultimately they’re coming to us. So like, it’s not like, okay, I want this cover. And it’s this crazy cover with a bunch of purple volcanoes, you know, you know what I’m saying?

[00:14:22] And like, we’re like, okay, that will never work. Um, so they come to us with knowing it’s in my contract that like, ultimately they have to, if they want trade distribution, be willing for this feedback, be willing for the work, be willing to say, Hey, you know what? All of sales, all of marketing, all of that, a trial is looking at this and the title and the cover really have to have this element in order for it to work the market.

[00:14:50] And, um, all my clients are. Grateful for that. They’re not, they understand that from the start. That’s why I also say our [00:15:00] clients choose us as much as we choose that. Because again, in a partnership, I think we talked about this before the podcast. You’re kind of all about collaborative, creative collaboration, which I really love, love that you said that because that is sort of my mission.

[00:15:15] Is that in a partnership publishing. We have to agree and, and, and, and go together towards that end product. And I think that there are some people, um, who have been frustrated in the traditional space because they felt like, oh my God, I didn’t even have any say. And then there’s people, um, in the self-publishing base, like you say, you can’t get into libraries where if you come through us, like I’m doing a TLA, a Texas library association, like big, huge getaway box, because I can’t.

[00:15:47] Because I have Matt major distribution  and they have booth space at those shows. Don’t forget. They have actually, and I pay into that. So my, my company is listed in [00:16:00] trade shows too. The librarians know that they could easily buy us. And that we’re, we’re, we’re a publishing house

[00:16:07] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:16:07] accompany. And it’s interesting because the what, what I kept, what I kept thinking to myself as, as I was listening to you talk was you’re vetted.

[00:16:16] Like they know that you will give them quality. Books too, to put in their libraries or to, you know, when you distribute them or all of that. That’s some, that’s something that, that a lot of sort of self-published authors don’t have. They don’t have that, that space of someone already knows me unless you’re, you know, I don’t know Scott sealer or something before he signed with whoever it is he signed with when he was putting his stuff out, people and people knew that he, that his.

[00:16:43] We’re good. And that they wanted them. Whereas for most authors, it doesn’t seem like it’s like that. So, so as I keep coming back to this word, disruptor, and you are, you are changing the industry because of this partnership model. I was wondering if you could talk a little [00:17:00] bit about what that actually means to you, what does being a disruptor mean?

[00:17:05] And what is, what are you disrupting? Exactly.

[00:17:10] Angela Engel: [00:17:10] Yeah. I mean, I’m going to go back to our friend house. Cause she said the best way better to publisher’s weekly this week. Right? Then they quoted her, which is that sometimes it makes sense to go with traditional publishers who takes the financial risk and sometimes partnership publishing makes sense.

[00:17:30] Especially when it’s time sensitive, I’m open to both models. Why, what does that mean to me when she said that? And I read that and what that means to me is that I think we need to be open to both models because there’s something called owning your IP, right. That we’re all that people are. Uh, uh, sort of upset about in this [00:18:00] traditional space where, Hey, if I go with a traditional publisher and I own all this IP and I got to sign over my rights, but I want to create characters for Netflix or whatever else your dream is to do with the, with it.

[00:18:12] Um, my model is disrupting the space because basically I’m licensing in some way for only, um, a certain amount of years, their IP. So you, so this is how we work. You create, we created. Fi and sometimes people don’t want trade. Right. And it’s just packaging. So we have definitely projects that are on our list that we just make books for for companies.

[00:18:36] And they got a beautiful book and we’re done. Then there are about 60% of our clients who really would like to be seen in the strand and at the library association. And so they signed a distribution deal with the collective book studio as part of our imprint, but I don’t own their IP. I don’t own that for life.

[00:18:55] That is a huge, that’s the disrupting piece, right? Is that I’m [00:19:00] actually saying to publishing houses, why are we so scared? Of saying of owning. For a lifetime. What is because Amazon has disrupted our industry. Let’s be real. They have, people are going there way they want faster at eight. They don’t want to have their IP owned.

[00:19:20] So let’s listen to what they’re asking for. This is like, it’s almost like we talked about movements. Look, I think enough people have spoken to say, I want to have a book. I really want to have a book and no one’s listening to that. So I’m going to just do it online. And Amazon was saw that need. And now they have not only been able to do it successfully.

[00:19:44] There are several, if not hundreds of cases, That are, that are hybrid services that offers certain kinds of editorial and great ways to make a really good book, which is important. You can get an editor and you can make a graphic designer through them, but they still don’t [00:20:00] have the distribution piece.

[00:20:01] Right. And so they’re able to Le they’re able to sort of utilize Amazon’s ability for, for, uh, for sale. And, uh, still create some quality production in some way, but they still don’t have the ability those services, because ultimately they hand it over to you and your left, right. As an author to do it all, to still do all the marketing, to do still all the PR and ultimately to print on demand or to do some offset.

[00:20:34] Um, you’re still left with that piece. And I sort of felt like, well, If I created an imprint at a trade imprint that people could, that was truly vetted. I could get the distribution because then librarians, booksellers. They trust what’s on our list. Right. They know it’s, it’s been vetted through what I started this podcast with [00:21:00] really seasoned professionals for decades come from.

[00:21:04] Don’t forget places like random house Harper. Uh, Harper Collins, Chronicle books. I mean, that’s where the staff, my staff come.

[00:21:18] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:21:18] I keep having to take a second and take all of that in. We were chatting about earlier how this is just like having a cup of coffee together. So, so imagine that I’m taking a sip of my soy latte right now. Uh, so I love, I love, love, love that you’re talking about the aspect of it, that, that, that you’re giving this opportunity to people.

[00:21:42] To not be holding the entire bag because there’s this notion of playing to your strengths. You know, my strengths perhaps are the writing. They may not be the marketing and the PR and all this other stuff. And I feel like there are there for, for so many professions. [00:22:00] To wear a kajillion hats. You know, I have to be my accountant.

[00:22:04] I have to be my marketing person, my PR person, my, this, my, that, my, the other. And sometimes I don’t want to, sometimes I can’t. And I’m talking about the general eye here. So, so you’re offering. And you started it with the hope that you could write that, that I, that I think I can, that I’m going to partially because you have these seasoned professionals, but something in you seems like you’re just, you’re just like the eternal optimist, you know, like I’m going to be able to make this happen and go.

[00:22:32] So can you talk a little bit about that? Like how. Your as the, as the CEO of this company, how does your state of mind affect the process, affect your collaborations with the people on your staff and also your collaborations with the authors that you take on?

[00:22:48] Angela Engel: [00:22:48] Oh, I love this question. I mean, mindset is everything.

[00:22:52] It’s everything. Um, what a great question. I mean, look, entrepreneurship is hard [00:23:00] when you asked me how do my colleagues feel in my traditional. I want to go back when I first started the company, because now of course they’re applauding, of course I’m getting this. Like, you know, and even in the very beginning I had really, I, I, in confidence, like I called a friend of mine who was high up at random house and I called a friend at Simon and Schuster and I called a friend at Chronicle and all of them were really, really supportive, but they were also like, Angela, we cannot offer you distribution.

[00:23:28] Like you gotta go get like a million dollars in backlist sales. So. I had to say, okay, I, you know, it’s not like I snapped my fingers. And I was like, cause when I first thought, okay, I’m going to snap my fingers and it’s going to be pretty easy to get distribution with Ingram. No, and I’m an insider, right?

[00:23:48] It was not easy. There were a lot of notes. There are a lot of like, honestly, I’m going to say. But it’s really true. And I, I’m going to say it cause I’m a woman in my forties. Who’s [00:24:00] climbed really high into my career. I taught before I was even 30 and there are a lot it’s specially in the sales old boys clubs, they are just are in, in the, in the industry.

[00:24:13] And it felt like I constantly was like, oh, that’s, uh, that’s, that’s nice, but you’re kind of young or you’re kind of naive.  and then I’m in my forties. Right? And I’m like, wait a second. I have spent 20 years of my career and you’re still treating me this way. I’m like, oh God. Now, so you know what I did? I just said, I’m just gonna, I’m just not going to listen anymore.

[00:24:38] I’m going to internally. I actually have said this so many times to myself, to my friends on a popular podcast. I am going to just have this mantra change starts with you. And if I have this mantra for myself every morning or what I’m feeling stuck, and I think change starts with [00:25:00] you, I can do anything.

[00:25:02] And so when you ask how I lead my team, It’s I lead my team with that idea that like, okay, you’re feeling frustrated or okay. A client is not doing right or, okay, this is not going on schedule. Oh, what can we change? What is it about you? What is it that we need to do? What is it that I need to do to move this forward on this project?

[00:25:26] And I think my team and my clients. The one thing is even when I’m stuck, I use that as an optimism piece because I know that in my own 20 plus years, there has been people who had, do have not believed in me. And I just have to let that go, you know, like it just, and, and when you do you surround yourself?

[00:25:52] Like, look, I’m here today on your podcast because I surround myself with people who do believe [00:26:00] in this power of lifting others up.

[00:26:04] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:26:04] I yeah, absolutely. Again. Oh, I’m going to take it in for a second. No, because, because there, we were talking a little bit earlier about my, my mantra, which is creativity, compassion, and collaboration, and that, it seems like I can almost go well, Angela, that seems like it’s kind of your mantra to that.

[00:26:23] This notion that you’re working in this very creative field. And you also have that analytical side too, that has to keep sort of the, the, all of the bowling pins in a row, if you will. But compassion is another word that I’m hearing from you, compassion for the authors, compassion for the process, compassion for the people on your staff.

[00:26:44] That it’s, that it’s very sort of purpose driven, but also heart centered. If you see what I mean, and I’m, I’m just wondering a little bit about what, what that. Means to you. What now, w what leading from that space means to you both, [00:27:00] if you don’t, if you don’t mind sharing both in the business world and also in your personal life, because in many ways as the CEO, you sort of have to figure all of that out.

[00:27:09] How are you going to divide the three girls that you have, you know, that you’re a mom to your relationships, all of that. And how do you align that with the, the business that you’re responsible for?

[00:27:22] Angela Engel: [00:27:22] You asked some really good questions, you know, while you were talking, I’m thinking of this, this woman, um, her name is Susan Reich and she was president of like Avalon, which was this really cool publishing house.

[00:27:36] They have like tons of imprints, one being seal, press one sources, great imprint. She ended up becoming president of, I believe publishers group west, which is part of Ingram. And. When I first, this is my biggest tip to any person find the really people who’ve all done it before you who’ve been able to, especially I [00:28:00] think women find a wa like I needed to find a woman in my life who had, who had already climbed such a ladder and had been in board rooms and was an exact, was such a boys’ club.

[00:28:14] That I could like sit down with. So when I first started this business and they have to be in your industry, so she was in my industry, she like understood my industry and I asked her to coffee. I didn’t talk to her for years. And she took my coffee. Right. It’s so excited. Like I’m 20 I’m 40 plus. And I felt like I was 22 and gap.

[00:28:35] Right. She met me for coffee three years ago and she saw, she said to me, I love your idea. I think this is going to work. And it was like that moment for me. And I don’t, I actually re emailed Susan, like about once I got like a lot of this once I got Fran Hauser and I told her, and we’re going to re you know, it’s been, we haven’t seen each other with the [00:29:00] vaccines all now, rolling out.

[00:29:01] Like we’re going to, once everyone’s fully vaccinated, we’ll make a time to go get coffee again. But why I said this is you’re asking me. Wait, remind me what my question is. I got on a little tangent, but I know I’m stringing it together. Um, do you

[00:29:17] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:29:17] want me to remind you? Yes. Yes. So basically it’s how do you align the compassionate heart-centered purpose-driven part of who you are with business and also your personal world and how you, how you figure all of

[00:29:32] Angela Engel: [00:29:32] that out.

[00:29:33] Okay. So this is my, my connection here. So Susan going out for that coffee, right? It’s in some way, taking her time, I’m not paying her whatever she’s showing compassion. She’s like, I remember this young 22 year old sitting at the Xerox machine working hard for me. Right. Making sure my company succeeded, like really caring about my.

[00:30:00] [00:29:59] And she now took that moment and had compassion when I said, I really need some advice. Right. And so I think that those things I lead with those things, cause I recognize. That those things about the human spirit, the human life, like what, when we show compassion to another human, right. When Susan’s shows compassion to me, I, that it’s almost like I’m a candle and it gets lit my combined fuel.

[00:30:30] And then I have time to just give it to somebody else. The issue is when we it’s, we need to keep passing that on to people. How, how I do it is I fi I have my little group of people. And when I’m feeling a little, like, Ooh, my flames out, it got as high as I needed to be. I go to the people that I know I need to refuel me so that I can refuel both my staff, my clients, my business.

[00:30:57] And then in return [00:31:00] that that does create into my home life. Right? Like I, um, am not so good at RNR, to be honest. And either as my husband, he’s a small business owner himself. He actually is a controller accountant for restaurants. So it is it’s intense. I bet for my girls to have two small business owners in the time of COVID, but, um, my girls are alone.

[00:31:27] There, there are the biggest champions of me, like my girls, for example, when my oldest who now is about to turn 13, she knows her mom from 14 weeks old. I mean, she doesn’t remember, but she remembers if you won, you know, as, as she got older that I was always traveling, I was on the road every other month.

[00:31:50] I mean, I mean every other, no twice a month, every other week, And, um, I was pumping, I mean, of course I was, I was selling to Costco. I was selling to target. I [00:32:00] was selling to buy, buy baby. I was selling to babies, RS at toys R us when that account existed. And so mom wasn’t there in that same physical way.

[00:32:08] So what I was Quinn was my kind of corporate lifestyle. She was already like eight or nine years old. Right. And I’m having a baby. My, my, my, my youngest and my oldest are eight years apart. There was a mom and I had a meltdown. I mean, this isn’t about compassion and I just lost it. We were in the car and I was crying being out of the nine-year-old and I have a toddler and they want stuff.

[00:32:37] They want to stop at the gap or something annoying. And I said, I turned around and the biggest cry I’d probably have to nurse. And my boobs are probably huge. And I just, I didn’t have, for the first time in my life, I didn’t have this like big. Job to like our nanny to pick them up or something. And I said, I turned around and I’m like, your dad makes all the money.

[00:32:59] Why don’t [00:33:00] you go ask him to take you? And, um, my oldest looks at me and she’s like nine years old and she’s like, mom, you can make money too. Oh yeah. And that compassion, that moment, that compassion, that realization. Oh, my God. I beat myself up. I’ve had mom guilt that I haven’t, you know, wasn’t able to go to her kindergarten, this or that.

[00:33:27] My daughter actually sees me so differently that that’s what motivated me to find the collective book studio. That’s what motivates me every day. That kind of fueled that she was like, mom, you’re a bad-ass.

[00:33:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:33:44] Oh, that’s amazing. I love that. And it’s so it’s so telling that sometimes we just can’t see ourselves as well as the people who love us can see us.

[00:33:55] There’s there’s a real powerful lesson right there. Wow. Incredible, [00:34:00] incredible. Thank you for sharing that, that, that’s amazing that, that, and that you were aware enough. To take the lesson from that, you know, there are people out there probably would have gone. Yeah. Whatever, but you actually stopped and you actually took it in and that’s, that’s amazing.

[00:34:13] Good for you. Wow. Oh, thank

[00:34:16] Angela Engel: [00:34:16] you. You’re the first to actually please set up that way. I, I appreciate that. I really do feel because I did ed take it in and I guess that’s a tip. If people are listening, like take them smile. Moments in because you know what I realized my anger or what I said to my children.

[00:34:37] That’s not okay like that. Wasn’t about my husband, like, you know, a partnership just like in my business, but in my marriage and in my relationship, which we’ve been together 15 years. Oh 16. It is a give and take, right? Like there are moments. Work work, got a share in the work. And so, and that’s really what my daughter, who [00:35:00] I am.

[00:35:01] She, I got to tell you these 13 year olds who could be an eighth grade next year, they’re about when they taught. I don’t know. I just want to say like, the way that they’re intelligent about gender is just incredible. And I think in that moment, my daughter was really able to say, whoa, bomb, check yourself.

[00:35:21] And she was only like nine years old.

[00:35:24] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:35:24] And she said it an old in the way a nine-year-old would write she, and she’d write to the point. I love that. I love I’m so glad that you’re raising such aware kids. Good for you. No, because, because honestly, I spent 20 years working. I worked at NASA for over 20 years and I was teaching, I was traveling and teaching kids how to save the planet.

[00:35:44] That was my job. It was awesome. And, and, and you see, seven-year-olds teach. College professors because the college professors think they know everything, but the seven year old is the one who actually does it’s really quite it’s quite something. They were able to do it. They were able [00:36:00] to, to, to teach them these valuable, valuable lessons.

[00:36:03] And that brings me to a question that I would love. Yeah. Chat with you about, um, this notion of teaching others of, of showing compassion and also just being giving back, I guess, you know, what, what is your thought on that? Because I know that your business and you personally, you’re a philanthropist, right?

[00:36:27] So. Role does giving back, does philanthropy play in, in your business model and also for you as the CEO of that business?

[00:36:38] Angela Engel: [00:36:38] Okay. Yeah. Um, well, I, again, I mean, I think that if we wait around always to say, okay, um, who else was going to do this? Or I don’t like it this way, or we have that kind of mindset. It nothing will change.

[00:36:54] Right. It’s like, so I, um, In the ho in the [00:37:00] start of the pandemic about, you know, now a little over a year ago, um, one of my closest friends was an ER ICU doc here in Oakland. And we all know there wasn’t enough PP, um, E there was not enough medical face shields, uh, for, for our frontline workers. And instead of being sort of thinking about, well, gosh, you know, What am I going to do?

[00:37:27] What can I do on a publisher house? I thought, you know what? I couldn’t link up with one of my friends. Who’s a small business owner, herself. Who’s out of work a fabricator, and we’re going to, because we’re a business, we’re going to be able to wire money over to DuPont and make medical face shields. And people would be like, what is a publishing house?

[00:37:49] Why is she doing this? Right. So why my, why is that? My best friend was working nonstop in the, in the ER [00:38:00] ICU, ER, my home. Is very, very close to Highland hospital, which is, um, account, uh, you know, it’s from the county hospital as a public hospital, which is a lot, so there’s a lot of low income and, um, round and brown and black people and people of color and color and low income.

[00:38:20] And it’s literally down the street from me. There’s. And I’m, uh, I’m an Oakland business. And so I felt it was my duty, my right, even though I might manufacture books as a community. Paying taxes and being part of Oakland and this hospital and my, my friend wasn’t at that hospital was at a different one, but then I, I really, um, sort of networked myself to San Francisco labor and, and said, Hey, what do we need?

[00:38:49] And the clinics around here from Santa Clara county low-income clinics to the Navajo nation, because it grew right. We’re not just our new Keeler, small bids. [00:39:00] And our little area, you start small in your community. I guess that’s my biggest advice. If you don’t know where to start, start in your community and it will grow.

[00:39:07] Like all of a sudden I was getting pinged by friends who had connections to the Navajo Navajo nation. And if you allow yourself to say, okay, I’m going to give myself this little time to be an activist in this particular school. And you open yourself up and you fought, like we’re saying, we collaborate with other people who you can network with.

[00:39:27] I ended up giving money over to a nonprofit to really maintain all of it because I have to go back to my real business. Right. But my work is not over in that moment. That’s one side. So what’s my next project. Like I’m working now on a book that, where we did a big, I fund women campaign and our goal is to.

[00:39:48] And, and, and sell thousands and thousands and thousands of copies of this little tiny book, which is called eat cake for breakfast, which who doesn’t want to eat cake for breakfast. And it’s the, and it’s [00:40:00] written by this incredible full, uh, entrepreneur and philanthropist, um, violas, um, soon Tonto. And she wants to be able to give back to UCS AF Oakland children’s hospital.

[00:40:12] And we connected, um, during the pandemic. We, we went on a walk and she, her daughter had a rare, um, a rare bone, um, bone condition, and she needed to get treatment at UCF and she wanted to be able to give back to this hospital. And so I said, well, I’m already manufacturing books. I already have staff. I already have people.

[00:40:39] Um, and, and the mass distribution, if you want to run an I fund women campaign so that we have money to manufacture this book, I’m happy to provide, you know, my marketing team or PR team and, uh, and an operational team to get this book into the room. And [00:41:00] that’s what I also would say. If you are a small business and you want to give back, sometimes you are able to just because you have a certain capability in manufacturing, if you think about all the places where they made masks to donate or other things.

[00:41:14] It’s finding those things. I also know that giving back it can be so easy. What did I say? I just buy my books now from bookshop.org. They’ve raised over $12 million to independent bookstores across the patient. Like that’s also activism. If you just think about what your business or who you are, can do and give back.

[00:41:37] I mean, for me, When, when black lives matter really was at the forefront of everybody, it was a fight. It was my duty for my kids to go out there into the streets to make signs, to see it. But it was also not enough. Like we ended up sending face shields to Minneapolis, to service, for example, children’s Minnesota [00:42:00] hospital to help people during the riots.

[00:42:02] Like, I just think, you know, what is, what is my take back? Like I think that if my company. Uh, you know, there’s only so you can, you can there’s money, but you can never, ever buy time and you can never buy humans. And like, I guess that’s just my that’s part of my philosophy in life. Like I, you could have all the money in the world, but that does not give you back your people and your time.

[00:42:29] And that’s what, that’s what I want to see when I’m old and gray and maybe sitting on a beach. What I’ve been able to reflect who my, who I’ve touched. I mean, that means I have, that means the world to me. That’s my personal thing. So my company, I mean, I, I do books. I do stories like I’m grateful every day, what I do, because I do think words changed Matt and words changed lives.

[00:42:58] They create.

[00:43:00] [00:43:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:00] For sure for sure they do. And I’m, you know, on behalf of authors everywhere, I’m so grateful that you are doing what you’re doing. It’s amazing. So I have, I have a. I got a

[00:43:12] Angela Engel: [00:43:12] little, um, I got really passionate there.

[00:43:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:14] I know. I love it.

[00:43:16] Angela Engel: [00:43:16] I love it. What did I just talk about?

[00:43:19] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:43:19] This is great. I think it’s so important.

[00:43:21] No, because, because we are not just what we do for a living. Right. And if you can, and if you can, to be the most successful person is the person who does what they love. And, and then, and then there’s a wonderful quote by, um, In the book, givens decline and fall by Sheri Tepper. And it, I it’s my favorite quote.

[00:43:42] Like it’s what I live by. And, and it it’s a little bit of dialogue, but I have to tell it to you in case you’ve never read the book. Uh, it’s about a woman who has since died, but she started a movement and somebody is talking about what she used to say, and this is the quote, find your sun warmed stone.

[00:43:58] She used to say to [00:44:00] us, go there, build your house there and then lift others up. I love that quote so much because that, that notion of, yeah, you can do it, you can start your business, you can write your book, you can, and once you’ve gotten to that point, help someone else, you know, and it sounds to be like that.

[00:44:18] Oh yeah.

[00:44:20] Angela Engel: [00:44:20] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, God. I’m doing a party dance over here in my chair. Like I love that quote. I know, that’s

[00:44:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:44:30] it. Once you’ve done it, pull others up. That’s that’s what we can do. We can help, we can help those coming after us. And so, so having said that. Brass tacks here, Angela, if somebody says, oh, I’ve got a book in me or I’ve written a book or whatever, and they want to find you, they want to, what are the steps to getting involved with collected collective book studios?

[00:44:52] What would you say someone should do when they want to do that? When they want to reach out when they want to follow you? When they want to say, Hey, could [00:45:00] we work together?

[00:45:01] Angela Engel: [00:45:01] Yeah, well, this would be my advice at any publishing house, whether it be mine or you were interested, you were a poet, you, I, and it was edgy.

[00:45:09] And I would maybe recommend go looking at soft skull press, like, look at what we already do. That is really key. So read, like, what is lifestyle? What is children’s? What are gifts? Titles? We have a titles page who are we publishing? Um, follow our authors and follow us. I think that will give you a good sense.

[00:45:29] Do you think you’re going to be a right fit for our last, um, I’m very education. I’m very into parenting and the career development. Um, I have a beautiful book coming out on labor and delivery, labor and delivery. Of course I am a mom of three, like, but how we even package this labor book is very gifty.

[00:45:48] Like my goal is, bye. Bye baby. Here, like looking into, um, really, so kind of look at our books and think about. Are we the right fit as if you’re writing a novel, like that’s not [00:46:00] what we do, right. So it’s not, it’s necessarily not, I’m not going to be able to really help you there, but it’s a memoir. We also don’t do.

[00:46:08] Now. I’m always willing to. Slide into my DMS, right. Which is at the collective book studio. And I’m happy to like give ideas on, uh, plates for a memoir or for a novel if I can, because I I’m very have been in the world for so long. So I have like 20 years and I might know a small, independent press that you’re not thinking about.

[00:46:29] And I think that, so, so for us, I love food and wine. I love Diane. I love, uh, anything travel full visual. Children’s like, think about how that book is going to be structured. And if it’s not full visual, then it should really be in like the self-help career motivating, uh, parenting space. But we would, but not, but the business it’s not hardcore business.

[00:46:56] Does that make sense? Some of that’s not really my genre either. [00:47:00] It really is. We’re really a trade house. We really trade publishing. We’re not going to have. A big academic reach. And some people may prefer to go on it to an academic press, for example, like UC Berkeley or something like that. So I think it just, no, I think it’s really about knowing what your why is and what your purpose is and what you’re trying to achieve with your own book and then, and then approach us.

[00:47:24] And I’m always, you know, willing to take a look there’s, there’s no cost for an author for us to look at it. It’s a submission

[00:47:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:47:31] process. Right. Absolutely. And, and I thank you for, for that. A lot of people don’t know that very specific and very good advice that you just gave, look at the imprint, see what they’re already doing and see if you would be a fit there before you even pitch them, which I think is so important.

[00:47:51] And. I, I have just a couple more questions because honestly, Angela, I could keep you here for the next six hours and we could just [00:48:00] keep chatting and order more coffee.

[00:48:02] Angela Engel: [00:48:02] Well, I do want to know more about your NASA days. I’m like, wow, that’s a story. Can we come on? Aren’t you going to write a children’s book with me and we do need more women in stem for sure.

[00:48:12] Okay. Well,

[00:48:12] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:48:12] and that’s exactly actually, that’s what I did. I, it was environment earth, so. And, uh, my, my job was to go in and make dirt fun. That was,

[00:48:22] Angela Engel: [00:48:22] oh my God. Well, we could talk for really, I mean, obviously we need more women in stem, so I applied there and, um, and I know I’m going on. I’m not told tangent need to pick it up, but I’m very curious about it.

[00:48:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:48:38] Well, we’ll have to have a virtual cup of coffee sometime. No, I mean, the thing about the thing about NASA and one of the. That what, what you do and what I do, where it intersects in some ways is because I was, I would go into places, either teaching kids or teaching scientists, how to speak to kids. A lot of it is they, they, they speak very eloquently, but [00:49:00] they speak at very high levels and eight year olds.

[00:49:03] You said what you know, or they check out. And so my job was to help scientists learn how to speak to eight year olds in a way that the eight year olds would find fun. And so then I took that and I wrote a book all about a called speak from within. So seed. Now I’ve put it all back into the publishing realm about how we can communicate in a way that will be really, really.

[00:49:24] Dave, particularly if we don’t know how or if we’re nervous about it. So, so when we’re talking about that stuff, when we’re talking about NASA or when we’re talking about, you know, writing for kids, what, to me, what I’m talking about ultimately is communication. And so for you, with what you’re trying to do with what you’re already doing successfully, it seems like what are your goals?

[00:49:51] 2030 years from now. What do you want to see in the publishing industry? From collective book studio and also perhaps the industry [00:50:00] itself?

[00:50:01] Angela Engel: [00:50:01] Hmm, 20, 30 a year. Okay. So I’ll be, what does that say? Over 70 and 30? Yeah. When you’re,

[00:50:08] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:50:08] when you’re like, when you’re on the beach and you’re going, I have done all of this really cool stuff.

[00:50:14] Angela Engel: [00:50:14] What are you thinking?

[00:50:19] Well, I want a New York times. I want a New York times bestseller. I don’t want to see, I want to see a time where independent publishing women own pub presses are back on those bestseller lists. Like it’s 89.9% big houses at this point. And the big houses just aren’t getting huge speaker. I mean, they’re just all buying each other up.

[00:50:41] They’re buying. I guess, I, I guess I believe in the power of like community and words, I think I need my dream. I think I need to, some of the more famous writers that might not need the huge, huge advances and want to try something completely different. Like, I almost like need them in [00:51:00] partnership with me, but I think that’s possible.

[00:51:02] I think that people. Um, can work with us in a way where you can’t get still a traditional deal. And there are still some books that bull make sense for your traditional house. I think I want to disrupt that industry idea that like, you have to stay all the time in traditional house. And if you don’t, you’re going to get like blacklisted, right?

[00:51:23] Like. What or like I self published and I can’t now get a publishing deal. What? That doesn’t make sense. People like, let it go because of the end. Let it go. Because the media, like if you have something to stay in, you’re a nonfiction author. They’re going to, you have something to say and you deserve to say it.

[00:51:46] Like, I don’t think in 30 years someone’s going to go, oh God, I had a, I had a self published book and God, I could never get a true D like no, like stop all of that kind of competitive attitude. And instead [00:52:00] let’s figure out how we’re going to still maintain. Right. This is really cool. For me, the reason I am still very picky about the submissions is I do have concerns with self publishing, for sure.

[00:52:16] Um, there’s things like, like blinders people have where you may put something that it could be offensive, racist, those types of things. And without a traditional guard, really looking at same with media, right? Like without traditional media really looking at it. There is room for hate speech. We saw that on Twitter.

[00:52:39] All over. Right. We’ve saw that, um, across the board and what that kind of insinuates in our culture and in our communities. So if traditional publishing, we need to change, we still need to be guarded for things like that. And that’s why I think if I look 30 years ago, I raised on the beach. Maybe with you.

[00:53:00] [00:53:00] They’re like having a beer. Champagne. And we’re saying we’re still, we’re still saying to the country, like you can’t have hate speech. You can’t have to pictures of people in a certain light, right? Like that’s what the Dr. Seuss enterprises did and shelves, six books and random house agreed with them. And like, there still needs to be that guy.

[00:53:21] But why also does, um, that guard have to control all of distribution? I have no idea why and all of people’s IP. And so maybe I’m hoping, you know, whether that be Simon and Schuster, all my colleagues were like, oh, laughing. Cause we’ve kind of decided. We’re going to change that mindset, that access that snobbery, that sometimes does exist in my industry.

[00:53:43] And I think the reason I’m talking to you today, or the reason sometimes I’m on clubhouses, that I want people to understand that there’s people internally inside my industry that are, that are not so snappy that don’t want to say, oh, only the elite have access to publishing. That’s not, [00:54:00] that’s not okay.

[00:54:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:54:02] Once again, I love that. You said that

[00:54:06] Angela Engel: [00:54:06] what’s true, right? Like I, you don’t have to be a celebrity to get, like, why are celebrities getting a cookbook and someone who’s been a chef and going to culinary school and is a writer for, you know, even like top columnists in journals are not getting published.

[00:54:21] Like that’s not.

[00:54:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:54:22] Okay. Well, and that’s the thing is that you. With your company are offering the opportunity for people to do that. You know, I mean, that, that to me is sort of the key takeaway for me here is that it that’s where you’re disrupting, you know, that that’s, that’s where things are really changing and, and more power to you.

[00:54:43] I think that’s. That’s incredible. And again, I have like 45 more questions that maybe you’ll come back and do a part two of this interview, uh, because, because I’m having such a wonderful time chatting with you, but I recognize you have a life to get back to. So I would love [00:55:00] it if you wouldn’t mind, uh, giving just I put it in the show notes, but people learn differently.

[00:55:06] So. Where people can find the collective book studio as far as on Instagram or on LinkedIn, wherever you are and your website, so that I can also put it on the show notes. I would appreciate it very much.

[00:55:18] Angela Engel: [00:55:18] Thank you. So our website is the collective. Dot studio. Very easy. It’s just the collective book.studio.

[00:55:28] And then on LinkedIn, you can just reach out to me, Angela angle, our companies on LinkedIn, as well as the collective books or, you know, so both places, but I, you know, feel free for people to DM me. I love LinkedIn. It’s one of my favorite platforms. Um, we also are active on Instagram at the collective book studio.

[00:55:47] We don’t have Twitter, you know, there’s only so many things we manage, but we’re so visual that, um, Instagram or LinkedIn as a personal or our website, I would love people to [00:56:00] subscribe to our newsletter. Um, we have a newsletter that’s growing that goes out twice a month and it’s really great. We have.

[00:56:06] This column called read with us, and we give all kinds of tips on what we’re reading as a staff. And I don’t believe that I have to only tote my books. I get, I really talk about the industry. We have, we have blogs that we write. So I just asked for people to build community with us and to engage with us.

[00:56:24] And, um, Yeah, that’s part of the fun.

[00:56:27] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:56:27] Absolutely. And I can say as a subscriber to the newsletter, that it is a lot of fun and I’ve gotten some great reading recommendations out of it, so, yeah. Good. Thank you. So again, Angela, I’m super grateful to you for being here. Really? What a, what a joy to talk with you?

[00:56:43] I have just one last question and I ask it of everyone who comes on the show and it’s a silly question, but I find. The question often yields some pretty poignant answers. And the question is this. If you had an airplane that could sky write [00:57:00] anything for the whole world to see, what would you say

[00:57:08] Angela Engel: [00:57:08] change starts with?

[00:57:10] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:57:10] Ah, your mantra. Yes. Yes. That’s fabulous. Thank you so much, Angela. I appreciate it. It’s great. It’s a great, beautiful. I can see it in the sky.

[00:57:21] Angela Engel: [00:57:21] I’ve never been asked that question. Oh my God. If that actually happened. Oh, I would I’ll remind house in Oakland. I would just be smiling. I am smiling ear to ear right now and looking out at my porch and my blue sky can imagine that.

[00:57:35] Izolda Trakhtenberg: [00:57:35] I know. Right. Thank you so much for that, that this has been a fabulous chat with Angela angle, who is. The CEO of the collective book studio, you are going to obviously need to follow her and the studio on Instagram and on LinkedIn. See what they’re doing. See how they’re disrupting the entire publishing industry.

[00:57:56] I am Izolda Trakhtenberg for the innovative mindset [00:58:00] podcast. If you’re liking what you’re hearing, please rate and review the show. I love it. I’d love to hear from you. I love your comments as you know, and if you’re a writer, get in touch with me because I’m always, always thrilled to talk to other authors until next time.

[00:58:13] This is Izolda Trakhtenberg again, reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.

[00:58:25] Thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you’re new and if you like what you’re hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. If you’d like to be a sponsor of the show. I’d love to meet you on patreon.com/innovative mindset.

[00:58:43] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters. Today’s episode was produced by Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always. Please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future [00:59:00] results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative minds.