Vanishing Postcards host and storyteller Evan Stern on the importance of telling the stories from the places that are off the interstate.

 

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Born during the driving rainstorm that inspired Stevie Ray Vaughan to record the classic “Texas Flood,” Evan Stern is one of a proud few who can claim Austin as his legitimate hometown. Having caught the performing bug early on, he first gained attention at age 11 with a second-place finish in Austin’s famed O. Henry Pun Off, and has since graced the stages of New York’s Carnegie Hall and Lincoln Center. A graduate of Sarah Lawrence College and the British American Drama Academy, whether acting Shakespeare, or charming audiences with the turn of a Cole Porter phrase, Evan is first and foremost a storyteller, with a sincere love and appreciation for history, travel and the art of raconteurship. He is now honored to return to Texas for the first season of Vanishing Postcards, an ambitious project that represents a synthesis of these passions through the form of audio essay.

Vanishing Postcards is a documentary travelogue in which listeners are invited on a road trip exploring the hidden dives, traditions, and frequently threatened histories that can be discovered by exiting the interstates. Named one of the Best Podcasts of 2021 by Digital Trends.

Connect with Evan

IG – @vanishing_postcards

IG – @evansternnyc

Podcast- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/vanishing-postcards/id1544610020

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Evan Stern: It’s hard for me to really latch on one specific lesson that I have gained, but I do believe that. Everybody wants, ultimately wants to be heard.

[00:00:18] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Hello and welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. I’m your host Izolda Trakhtenberg on the show. I interview peak performing innovators in the creative social impact and earth conservation spaces or working to change the world. This episode is brought to you by brain FM brain FM combines the best of music and neuroscience to help you relax, focus, meditate, and even sleep.

[00:00:39] I love it and have been using it to write, create and do. Deepest work because you’re a listener of the show. You can get a free trial head over to brain.fm/innovative mindset to check it out. If you decide to subscribe, you can get 20% off with the coupon code, innovative mindset, all one word. And now let’s get to the show.

[00:00:58] Yeah.[00:01:00]

[00:01:02] Hey there. And welcome to the innovative mindset podcast. My name is Izolda Trakhtenberg. I’m your host, and I’m super thrilled that you’re here. I’m also really excited and thrilled to talk about and meet this week’s guest. Listen to this. Evan stern was born during the driving rainstorm that inspired Stevie Ray Vaughn to record the class.

[00:01:22] Texas flood. I love that Evan stern is one of a proud few who can claim Austin. S’s legitimate hometown that’s the town is growing. So, wow. That’s amazing how few people probably are from there. Having caught the performing bug early on. He first gained attention at age 11 with a second place finish in Austin’s famed.

[00:01:43] Oh, Henry punt off. And it says grace, the stages of new York’s Carnegie hall and Lincoln center, a graduate of Sarah Lawrence college. American drama academy. Wow. Whether acting Shakespeare or charming audiences with the turn of a Cole Porter phrase, Evan is first and foremost, a storyteller, and [00:02:00] you know how close that is to my heart.

[00:02:02] He’s got a sincere love and appreciation for history travel and the art of a wreck on tour ship. He’s now honored to return to Texas for the first season of vanishing postcards and ambitious project that represents a synthesis of these passions through the form of audio essay. Vanishing postcards is a documentary travel log in which listeners are invited on a road trip, exploring the hidden dives, traditions, and frequently threatened histories that can be discovered by exiting the interstates named one of the best podcasts of 2021 by digital trends, evidence here to talk about banishing postcards and everything else.

[00:02:37] So amazing that he’s doing Evan. Thank you so much for being there. Show welcome.

[00:02:41] Evan Stern: Thank you so much for having me. It’s a great honor. Oh,

[00:02:44] Izolda Trakhtenberg: you’re very sweet. So I I’m, this is such an exciting thing. Delving into the history of Texas. First of all, into the, into the storytellers of Texas into the dives and the honky-tonks of Texas as a travel log.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] But as a podcast, what, what inspired you to do this? What inspired you to go? You know what? I’m going to create this travel log. And I’m going to make it about my home state. What happened that you went, yes, I want to do this.

[00:03:13] Evan Stern: Well, it was, it, it wasn’t as if there was a lightning bolt of inspiration. It was a very kind of slow gradual process.

[00:03:21] Um, and, and you told me, you know, a few years ago that right now I’d be working on a podcast. Um, you know, I might’ve said really. Um, but like, like so many though, I am one of those people who over the last 10 years just absolutely fell in love. Podcasting, um, and the, um, audio medium of storytelling, I think kind of the gateway drug for me, um, was years ago, I started listening to the moth, you know, just people getting up and telling personal stories without notes.

[00:03:52] I, I just absolutely loved it. Um, then you start discovering, um, other programs, you know, like the, the kitchen [00:04:00] sisters and, and, and, and there’s, you know, different, different stuff. I mean, there, there’s a wonderful podcast about classic Hollywood called you must remember this. There’s one about country music called cocaine and rhinestones, um, and around, and, you know, not too long ago as well.

[00:04:18] Um, you know, the YouTube algorithm, uh, kept suggesting for whatever reason that I watched these, uh, travel blog, travel blog videos, and in watching them, I would never really see the way that I enjoy traveling represented. Um, I mean, certainly it’s not always the case, but I think more often than not, when you, when you see videos of that nature, it’s much less about the places themselves.

[00:04:45] It’s much more about the people saying, oh, look at me and how cute I am in this place. Um, and I just kind of gradually started thinking, you know, I wonder if there is something that, uh, that, that I can do. [00:05:00] Um, and initially I had this grand idea. That I wanted to do a show that was going to be a musical travel log of Mexico.

[00:05:09] Um, you know, I’m, I’m immersed in the gig economy in New York, and I always try my best to get away January February just to, to escape the, the bitter cold of the winter. And, um, you know, Mexico is my happy place. It’s, it’s cheap, it’s warm. Um, and so I initially had this idea that I was going to go, uh, kind of explore, use music as a portal to exploring the cultural, regional history of Mexico.

[00:05:36] I was going to go to Vera Cruz that was going to where the tradition of, you know, and one a Watteau and, um, you know, in Monterey and the north. And I went so far as to, uh, produce a pilot episode, um, in Marietta Yucatan, um, about the tradition of the trophies that they have there. And it’s one thing to, you know, when you’re running an event, [00:06:00] Um, you know, you’re thinking to yourself, oh my goodness, this is just going to be the best thing ever.

[00:06:05] This is going to be amazing. And then you sit down and you listen to what you have spent months working on and you go, oh my goodness, I have missed the mark. So terribly. Um, it was a perfect lesson in show. Don’t tell, I mean, w what happened was, is I talked all about the city of Marietta. It’s about its history, this, that, and the other, but you didn’t actually, um, when, when you were listening to it, I also learned pretty quickly that the, the human voice has such terrific color, shade, and nuance to it.

[00:06:37] That if you have an actor come in, um, to a dub over, uh, you know, what was said in English, you just, you just lose so much. Um, and I realized pretty quickly that I needed to learn much more about audio production before tackling a project of that ambitious nature. And so I started thinking to myself, well, you know what.

[00:06:59] Might [00:07:00] not be as exotic as Mexico, but if there’s one thing I know it’s that Texas people love to talk and they tell great stories. So in January of 2020, um, grab some equipments. Um, and I went back down to Texas to see what I could do. Um, really, it was just, uh, going to be kind of an experiment. Um, but it very quickly evolved into vanishing postcards.

[00:07:26] Um, what happened was, is I took a look at what I was doing, um, and I realized that each episode was a snapshot of a different place. And if there was a thing that the place has had in common it’s that you didn’t know how much longer a lot of them were going to be around or that they were representative of broader cultural histories or traditions that.

[00:07:52] You know, you, you just, they’re kind of rare, um, in, in this kind of fast paced rapidly homogenizing [00:08:00] world. Um, and, um, since then it, it became, it it’s, it’s been an incredibly rewarding journey. Um, you know, as I maybe referenced earlier in, in many ways, it is kind of a 180 from a lot of the work I’ve previously done at the, at the same time.

[00:08:17] Um, I feel that all of that work really kind of beautifully prepared me for it. Um, and having embarked on this journey, um, I ended up covering like about 1500 miles of, of Texas and, um, having embarked on this journey as a solo traveler, um, I’m now really grateful that the series is out in the world. Um, and I can invite, uh, you know, people like you and listeners really around the world, uh, to, to join me now and experience, uh, everything that I got to do.

[00:08:49] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. That’s amazing. And it’s incredible to me, what you just said about how you took everything that you had learned up until that [00:09:00] point and reframed it and repurposed it almost into this, this way of looking at your home state. And yet it is both technical and it takes a lot of artistry. And I’m wondering what, in, as part of, as part of doing this project, what did you learn?

[00:09:21] What was the thing that stood out for you that you learned maybe about yourself or about the people in your state or about the places? What was the biggest thing you learned and how did it change you?

[00:09:31] Evan Stern: Well, there’s a lot, I mean, it’s hard to, for me to really latch on one specific lesson that I have gained.

[00:09:38] Um, but I do believe that. Everybody wants, ultimately wants to be heard. They, they really do. Um, and I mean, people often ask me, you know, w w w w when I first started doing this, it was, it was in January, 2020. It was before the pandemic hit. Obviously the pandemic changed, um, a [00:10:00] lot of what I could do. Um, but I was really the first episodes that you’ll hear in the series.

[00:10:05] I was really just kind of showing up at these places completely unannounced. Um, they really had no idea, um, that I was going to be there. Um, and it, it, people ask me, you know, did you meet resistance? We’ll we’ll really know. Um, everyone was, was intrigued. And for the most part, people were so honored that, you know, someone like me was taking an interest in their work, their place, uh, what they were doing.

[00:10:35] Um, and I don’t think too, I mean, Someone recently asked me too, that, that when they, you know, listen to the, to the series, you know, that, you know, they, they feel as if I’m able to, you know, extract these, these stories. And they said, well, how, how do you, how do you make this magic happen? And, well, the truth is is that you, you can’t, um, there is nothing that you can do to you.

[00:10:59] You never [00:11:00] really know what is is going to happen. Um, but the stories, if you just, if you start talking to people, um, you approach them with respect, empathy, and a willingness to listen. Um, and you ask them specific questions. Um, you just, you, you never know what you’re going to. Um, and something that I tell anyone who’s maybe interested in doing something like this.

[00:11:29] Um, I will say that if you do want to, you know, get stories, you do want to ask people specific questions. Um, I would never go up to someone and just say, tell me about yourself. Um, I might say, um, before we get started, could you maybe describe for me your childhood home, you know, something like that. And, um, that really kind of opens up the door and we just kind of take things from there.

[00:11:51] Yeah.

[00:11:56] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Sorry. I’m taking all of that in. I like to take a pause to make sure [00:12:00] that I’ve, that I’ve understood everything. One of the things that I heard you say that really struck a chord with me was that it’s about listening. And the other thing of course was asking those specific questions and. Were there any, and if so, what are they techniques that you use specifically as a, as a performer to help you with that part of it?

[00:12:26] Evan Stern: Well, you know, I honestly, I think that, um, as I said so much of my experience, um, leading PR prepared me in, in leading up to this, um, and a big job that I’ve had for a number of years here in the city is it’s a very, it’s a very strange job. Um, I work as a, what is called a standardized patient, um, that is the medical schools, programs, hire actors to facilitate simulations [00:13:00] for, uh, medical interns and students.

[00:13:03] Um, I have played all sorts of different cases. You’d never believe. I mean, they’ve had to diagnose me. I’ve been the graphic designer they’ve had to diagnose with cancer. Um, I have, uh, you know, I, I I’ve been the 19 year old crack addict who suffered a panic attack. You name it. I’ve I’ve had it. Um, but I have learned so much in, in working with these students in terms of how they build rapport and what works and what doesn’t.

[00:13:34] Um, I think it’s amazing. How many people, uh, it can be applied to interview situations, whatever, um, you know, you give someone a microphone. Sometimes they just kind of become a completely different person. You know, they think that every question, you know, has to be probing and every question, you know, has to have weight, but you really just have to remember how you talk to people in your [00:14:00] everyday life.

[00:14:02] You know, how do you introduce yourself to a stranger? Um, you know, you’re just going to start talking to people, um, and you know, you, you read their body language and you, you really just it’s about establishing trust. Um, and it, and I feel that people understand that. I don’t think of myself as a journalist.

[00:14:30] Um, I’ll be the first to say that I think of myself as more of an essayist. I really think that a journalist job is to investigate a journalist job is to probe. I’m not really there to do that. I’m really there just to, you know, kind of have a conversation and, and enjoy the ride and see where that ride takes.

[00:14:49] You know, I’m not, if someone tells me a tall tale, um, I’m not going to fact check that story. Um, but I think that people recognize [00:15:00] that. Um, and you know, I just think that, um, just, just really, like I said, just, just remembering how we relate to one another, uh, every day is, is just crucial.

[00:15:15] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Yeah, you’re talking. I mean, as you’re talking, I’m going, he’s, he’s talking about integrity and authenticity, and those words are abandoned about aura a lot nowadays, but it really, it seems to me that that’s, that that’s what you, that, that that’s what, what you were using, you know, using who you, who you were authentically to meet these people.

[00:15:37] And I know you said that people asked you if you, if you met resistance, I’m wondering what was the most wild story you heard?

[00:15:46] Evan Stern: Goodness. Oh, man, there, there were, there was, uh, so, so there’s this teeny town called Castile, Texas that sits on the Western edge of the, uh, [00:16:00] the hill country. It’s absolutely beautiful, very isolated.

[00:16:04] The town has a population of six and, um, I don’t even know if he’s really there, mayor, I don’t know if they actually have a mayor, but you know, the, the big local personality is Randy Love. Festi, uh, he’s the owner of the Castille store. Um, I’ll be releasing his episode in a, in a few weeks. Um, but, uh, when I was there, he told me that, uh, he had, uh, he, he, he, he took a trip to Cabo San Lucas with his girlfriend.

[00:16:36] Uh, they saw this, uh, chicken in a bar and he said, you know what, I need a chicken for the store. So, um, you know, he bought this, uh, roof. For the store. And, um, he had this, uh, Billy Bass that was like, you know, one of those electronic things, you know, you clap your hands in the best wiggles. Well, um, one day as he tells [00:17:00] me, he looks over and, um, this rooster is having sexual relations with that bass.

[00:17:05] So this thing he tells me became this huge sensation where people from all over the place started coming to town to see his rooster perform, you know, 12 times a day. And he was able to, uh, make hundreds of thousands of dollars in real estate deals that he was able to sell to the people who came through the store because of that rooster.

[00:17:27] And then he proudly led me into the store where he showed me this. He, you know, he, he called the rooster cockroach. Yeah, and the rooster died. And after the rooster died, he had that. He took him to the taxidermists and, um, had him, uh, mounted and placed on top of his good friend, Billy the bass. And I’ve seen a lot of taxidermy in my day.

[00:17:51] I don’t think I have ever seen a stuffed rooster and I have certainly never seen a row stuffed rooster on top of a Billy Bass. I’ll [00:18:00] tell you that right now.

[00:18:02] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Wow. That is. Tall tale for sure.

[00:18:10] Oh my goodness. I uh, wow. Yeah, yeah. I don’t even, I’m like, whatever. How do I follow that up? I think, I don’t

[00:18:21] know. I did. I did, because you know, the thing, the thing about this is that anytime we tell stories or listen to stories, I think we’re changed by them even if, even if it’s, oh, that’s just the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Your experience of life is, is, is changed in some way or another. So I guess I’m wondering, how have you been changed by doing this project?

[00:18:45] Evan Stern: Well, It’s in many ways, it’s been a dive into the unknown, as I said, it’s, it’s very, it was all very new for me in the beginning. Um, I had to do a lot of learning and [00:19:00] I re I really had to put myself out there. Um, it definitely, um, tested the boundaries of my comfort, um, in a lot of ways. Um, you know, you really just have to, as I said earlier, you have to go up out there and just start talking to people.

[00:19:16] Um, and I usually found that I was way more nervous than the people I was talking to. And, um, I was talking to someone else about this, um, experience. Someone said, and, you know, she asked me, she was like, well, how do you, where does that confidence come from? Where do you get that confidence? And I said, well, you know what?

[00:19:36] I, I, I think I’ve discovered that confidence is kind of overrated. Um, because you can’t just read a book or, you know, attend a three-day workshop, whatever, and magically have confidence. It just doesn’t happen that way. Confidence happens as a result of experience. Um, it happens as a result of mistakes. Um, and, [00:20:00] um, I think.

[00:20:02] I heard somewhere that, you know, what heroic act doesn’t involve, just huge levels of vulnerability. Um, and so I, I think I have definitely grown in confidence as a result of all of this, but that really, uh, just is a by-product of, of the work itself and everything that, you know, has been asked of me to, to rise to this challenge

[00:20:36] Izolda Trakhtenberg: and that in itself, the, the skills you’ve built, the ideas that you’ve gotten and, and brought to fruition is a big part of the change I would imagine. And I love, I’d love to discuss a little bit as you talk about this, what is the process? What was the creative process that goes in to making an episode to crafting vanishing posts?

[00:20:59] Evan Stern: Absolutely. [00:21:00] So each, you know, obviously I do have each episode does have a subject that I am interested in delving into. Um, there are people that I want to meet, just so you know, so basically, um, a bit more about the show itself for, for those listening out there. So essentially listeners are invited to join me on a road trip.

[00:21:23] And so each episode is produced in documentary style. So, you know, you’re going to hear a lot of, it’s not, you know, interview, it’s not talk show, you’re going to hear a lot of different voices. Um, you’re going to hear some of my narration, um, and I really work hard to make it an immersive listening experience for those who, who are hearing the episodes.

[00:21:49] Um, but basically the, the way that I constructed is, um, there are. And, uh, as I said, you know, each episode, there are certain issues that, that I’m looking at. [00:22:00] Um, and so I just go, I, I talk to people, um, and I assemble a number of interviews at the, at the places that I go to. Um, you know, I try to talk to the, uh, the owners.

[00:22:14] I try to talk to the workers. I try to talk to the people who go to these places. Um, you’re going to ask all of those people different questions. Um, but you’re also, I think there, you know, you also want to, there are also some specific questions that I will ask all of them. Um, and then what I do is I, I come back home and I listened to all of the, um, I listened to all of the interviews and I extract, you know, the, the gold from each person I speak with, you know, I could very well talk to someone for like an hour out of that hour conversation.

[00:22:51] I might just take, you know, Three minutes worth of, of nuggets or whatnot. Um, and then I, you know, I, I look at [00:23:00] everything that I have and I stepped back and I, I just kind of look for it, you know, that, what, what, what, what, what are the commonalities, what, what do people keep coming back to, you know, are there opposing views?

[00:23:15] Um, and from there, I, I just kind of take these nuggets and I weave together a story out of all of that. Um, I really let my subjects kind of guide the way that the, the story moves and goes. Um, the, the most challenging job for me is in the writing process of pasting it all together. Um, everything has to have I learned, you know, for years, I, you know, I’ve, I’ve.

[00:23:45] Did a lot of performing in the cabaret world. Um, and you know, even if you’re just putting together a show, that’s, that’s really kind of, you know, a series of songs, what is said in between those songs is every bit as [00:24:00] important as the songs themselves and everything has to have architecture and a beginning, middle and an end.

[00:24:06] Um, so the, the greatest challenge for me is about how I can link everything together, um, in the narration as part of a cohesive whole, um, you know, I think, but each episode, uh, you know, I, I never, totally, there are always things that I want to focus on, but you just never totally know where it’s going to go.

[00:24:27] And before each one, um, I always ask my God, is this going to work? Um, but some so far it’s worked out okay,

[00:24:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That moment of, oh, what if this is going to be a complete disaster? I know it well. Um, and it’s, I’m so fascinated by what you’re saying with respect to the storytelling, the beginning, middle and end, and the sort of the patter between songs in, in, in a cabaret show, all of, all of those things, those elements [00:25:00] of storytelling, what do you think is the result?

[00:25:06] What is the most crucial thing to put into it? And what is the result? How do you, when do you feel like yes, it has worked as opposed to, oh, it’s going to be a disaster.

[00:25:16] Evan Stern: Well, as I said earlier, again, the most important thing is, is show don’t tell, um, and what, what, what is always best for me is I try not to.

[00:25:34] I try not to express too much in the way of, of opinion. Um, what, what is really magical though, is just when you have, when you’re talking to someone and, you know, whether they realize it or not, they, they share and tell a story that just kind of beautifully encapsulates everything, you know, that, that just really explains the issue [00:26:00] without it, you know, at that point, the work for you is, is really done.

[00:26:05] Um, but you know, kind of an example of, of something that, you know, I, I did that, that was a challenge, um, was, you know, I have an episode that’s coming out in a bit where. I took a trip first to, to Brownsville, Texas, where I spoke with this man who is the last, uh, cook in the United States who was allowed to serve a barbacoa cooked barbacoa, as it was meant to be prepared, which means it’s, it’s cooked in a pit under the ground.

[00:26:37] Um, and that’s what he does. He, he, he’s serving barbacoa out of what had been his childhood home. Um, there’s a pit out back that’s in the ground and, you know, that’s where he cooks it. The reason that he’s allowed to do it is because his father started it in 1956 and it’s been going on for this long. And so I focused on him and I did a segment on him.

[00:26:57] And then I went to San [00:27:00] Antonio and I, um, you know, met a cook there who, you know, talked about cooking up puffy tacos. And, um, it ended up, you know, she, her story went in a completely different direction. Um, I mean, her mother. Started this business out of, uh, out of a garage because it was her last hope. Um, she was an incredible woman, a revered figure in San Antonio, um, who, you know, was shockingly murdered.

[00:27:28] Um, and she talked all about that and, and, and everything. And, and then, and how she like found forgiveness and was being able to move beyond and, you know, everything that her, how her mother prepared her and how her mother expressed love through, through cooking. And, um, I realized that, you know, on, on the surface, you know, these two stories, yes, they were about cooking, but they were very, very different.

[00:27:55] But what, what is it that they had in common? I realized that, you know, [00:28:00] through their cooking, they were both expressing love. And for me, and that’s how I brought the two together.

[00:28:14] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I’m still thinking, sorry, it’s a beautiful, uh, yeah. That notion of, um, cooking and, and healing through cooking and expressing love through cooking, but also expressing love for, I guess, the, the heritage and the inspiration for what they did is so important. And I’m wondering if you have someone or figures or people in, in your world.

[00:28:45] Hoo hoo hoo. Does that for you? Who inspired you to do this? And if so, is it that same love, it sounds weird to say love connection, but is that connection one of love and respect? What [00:29:00] is it about the people or the images or, or the ideas that inspired you that comes from that place?

[00:29:11] Oh, no you’re

[00:29:11] Evan Stern: thinking. Oh, no, of course, absolutely. I mean,

[00:29:20] There. I mean, who can you say, can you just rephrase the question in a simple, in a simple one sentence in a simple one sentence for me? Can you say, say what you’re getting at

[00:29:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: again here? Sure. I’m just wondering who inspired you throughout the journey? Are there any public figures or is there anybody in Texas?

[00:29:37] Are there any people who made you go, ah, this is what I want. Well,

[00:29:41] Evan Stern: what I can say is that if, if there is a bar that I am always working towards, you know, never, never met him personally. Um, but I am old enough to remember growing up on CVS. There was a man by the name of Charles Kuralt who would travel the [00:30:00] country and he would really just kind of share good news is, is what he was, is what he was doing.

[00:30:07] And he. He, he never expressed anything in, in terms of, in, in, in showing these stories, he was able to present, you know, the best of people without really expressing anything in the way of judgment. And there are many situations throughout this process where I have asked myself, what would Charles Kuralt do?

[00:30:32] Hmm. Um, and you know, I, I don’t mean to, I’m not trying to compare myself to Charles Caroll. Um, in the least, you know, I have much more work to do, you know, before I feel like I can get people called him the Walt Whitman of American television. Um, but I can tell you that that is the bar that I am always working towards.

[00:30:56] Um, and the greatest compliments that I have received, [00:31:00] um, you know, or when people have heard this series and said, oh, you know what, this reminds me of Charles Perrault.

[00:31:08] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That’s lovely. And I remember Charles Caroll also on like, uh, CBS Sunday morning or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. His stories were all, you know, when, uh, you were mentioning the idea of love and heart.

[00:31:20] That’s what I remember thinking about his stories was that they were always full of such quiet soul and heart. They didn’t have to be huge stories, but they were, they always left me feeling better and always gave me something to think about. Well, yeah,

[00:31:38] Evan Stern: go on. Go on. No, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Well, and I do believe that there is a great void of that when you look at our media landscape right now, and th there, there really is.

[00:31:48] Um, we live in a horribly polarized, horribly divided age. Um, I, I do not believe that anything that we have lived through over the [00:32:00] last five, six years should be normalized. I will be the first to say that, um, But I do believe that, you know, the, the issues that we are wrestling with right now as a nation, uh, in the divisions that we’re dealing with in terms of politics and race are completely unsustainable.

[00:32:20] But at the same time, I do think that there is more that we have in common than what we’ve realized. And I do think that culture right now is one of those rare areas of agreement. And what this show is about celebrating is that culture, um, you know, culture provides opportunity for shared experiences and you know, that that’s really kind of what I’m getting at with, with all of this.

[00:32:53] Um, and, and additionally too, I mean, how can we expect for people in [00:33:00] our rural communities to appreciate what is good and beautiful about places like New York city or San Francisco, or even Austin for that matter, if we cannot appreciate what is good and beautiful about them,

[00:33:22] Izolda Trakhtenberg: from what you just said, it feels like there’s a sort of a, through the looking glass aspect to your show that you’re inviting people to go on a journey with you to, to see these places or to listen to these, to these stories and to hear about them. When you do that, when you’re in that space of inviting people on a journey, how do you decide which stories are the ones that are important to tell.

[00:33:52] Evan Stern: Well, something that’s important to me. Is that so often when we think about art and [00:34:00] culture, I mean, we think about palaces of civilization, like the mat, the British museum, the, the loop, but the truth is that art and culture is everywhere. And oftentimes some of the best of it comes from places that you’re just not going to read about in glossy magazines.

[00:34:20] You’re not going to see about these places on Instagram. And it’s really about exploring that, you know, Detroit gave us Motown, Clarksdale, Mississippi gave us the blues. Um, and, and for me, it’s really kind of about seeking these, these places out. You know, if you read a, you know, if you read like a tourist guide book about Texas, they’re going to tell you to go to the Alamo.

[00:34:49] They’re going to tell you to go to the river walk, do this, do that. Um, There’s so much more to that. I mean, I had the [00:35:00] great honor of visiting a town called San Benito, um, which is about, you know, 15, 18 miles north of the border. Um, and you know, th this is, you know, if you look at this country, um, you know, the real Grandy valley, um, is just statistically, one of the, the poor regions, you know, there’s been a lot.

[00:35:21] Um, you know, uh, D population, you know, flight, whatnot, but this town of San Benito, um, was responsible for giving birth to the movement of music. Um, which is an incredible genre. Basically what happened is the, uh, the Mexican laborers down in south Texas, um, heard the music that was brought to the area by the checks, the Germans, they heard the Pocus, they heard the accordions, um, and they, they took that accordion music.

[00:35:51] They took those polkas and they added their own lyrics and Spanish to them. They threw in guitar and they created this whole entire genre [00:36:00] of music. And, um, w w the story there is, is, is I knew that I wanted to. To do a piece, you know, on the border, you hear about the border a lot, um, in the news right now, but what is always lost in the noise surrounding all of that is the culture and the people who actually exist there.

[00:36:19] Um, and I thought that kahuna really kind of provided a terrific, uh, opportunity just to explore kind of the beautiful th the, the beauty that exists there. And I heard that there was this museum in this town called the Texas kahuna music hall of fame. So I sent a message on Facebook. Um, I I’d heard that, uh, it was founded and owned by a man by the name of Ray Abila.

[00:36:42] And a little while later, I got a call from his son, turned out, uh, that Mr. Abila, his father had died about seven months prior, but that if I wanted to go, um, visit the museum, that they would be honored to have me and I showed up. This museum, the small town in [00:37:00] Texas and the entire family was there because they wanted for me to know about their father.

[00:37:07] Um, they wanted me to know about Cancun . Um, they found a, the president of a record label who specializes in this music so that he could be there with us too. And they had such pride and joy in, in sharing. And an honor that someone took the time to visit a place like, like San Benito. Um, it is an experience I will always treasure and never forget.

[00:37:34] Izolda Trakhtenberg: That is so lovely. And I’m so glad that you got to tell that to, to tell that story, to show, to show, to sort of open the window, if you will, into San Benito and into this music. And I’m wondering something, this is a little off topic, but do you know who Alan Lomax was? I

[00:37:54] Evan Stern: have heard the name. Um, please refresh my memory.

[00:37:57] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Sure, sure. So he was an [00:38:00] ethnomusicologist and what he did with his whole career for 50 years, he traveled the world and he recorded music. And when video came along, video of mew, indigenous music, wherever he was, he tried to find the music from that place. And, uh, and there, when I worked at the national geographic site in many moons ago, he came over and he was like, Hey, I would love to put together a library that didn’t happen with the geographic, but his daughter, after his death put up a website and there is a website that you can go and, uh, sort of see the music from anywhere.

[00:38:35] You can hear the music from anywhere, you just type it in. And if it’s there, if they got a recording of it, you’ll be able to hear it. And so I’m wondering for posterity, what is your. W w w this library, if you will, that you’re creating this travel log that you’re creating in my mind, Alan Lomax, his version of it is providing us access to music from all [00:39:00] over the world that is, that could be lost.

[00:39:03] And I’m wondering, what do you, what is your feeling about that with the stories that you’re telling you mentioned earlier that these that’s, their survival is not certain the different traditions and the, and even the, the, you know, the honky-tonks the places themselves, what are you going for here? What is your long-term vision for vanishing postcard?

[00:39:24] Evan Stern: Well, so yes, so I’m collecting oral history and I, I think it is really important that we do have a record of it. Um, I think in some ways, uh, this is something perhaps of a bit of a call to arms. Um, you know, I, I want to say it’s about shining a light on, you know, what is, what is still, what is still there.

[00:39:47] Um, but we can still go to, but as I said, you know, some of this stuff might not be around for too much longer, so it’s, it’s really kind of about drawing attention to it so that we can preserve it. Um, you know, I look at my [00:40:00] hometown of Austin. Texas as a whole. Um, it is, it is changing at rapid pace. I don’t think that change is something to be feared.

[00:40:09] Um, in, in many ways I think it is something that, um, should be embraced, but we have to change and grow responsibly. Um, we have to ask, you know, why, w w what is it that people like about Austin? What is it about Texas that draws people there? Why do people keep coming? Um, and I do think that it is it’s culture, and I believe that we, as a society need to do a lot more to protect the culture that surrounds us.

[00:40:36] I mean, th th most of the places that I spotlight are small businesses and. You know, whenever a small business closes that, you know, has a great history behind it or fondness to it, you’ll have all of these people come out of the woodwork saying, oh my goodness, this is horrible. This is the worst thing ever.

[00:40:54] But my question always is, well, when was the last time you, you actually went there? Um, [00:41:00] I mean, it’s really exhausting. It’s a lot of hard work, um, to, to keep these places going. And if people get tired or they aren’t making ends meet you, you can’t blame them. Um, and this is an issue that you see happening in New York.

[00:41:14] It’s an issue you see happening in Texas, California, London, name it it’s happening. Um, and so I do think that. You know, th th hopefully this series kind of makes people think, uh, a bit more about that. Um, and long-term, it is my hope, uh, that I can expand the map beyond Texas because, um, the, the issues that I feel are explored in this series are truly universal.

[00:41:44] In fact, if you look at the analytics, um, most people tuning in and listening right now are actually listening from outside of Texas. Um, and so I think it’s important to, uh, you know, I want to expand the map [00:42:00] and, um, you know, if I can do a part to draw attention to, you know, the, the, the beauty of a meal, American culture that surrounds us, um, you know, that’s kind of what my goal is.

[00:42:16] Izolda Trakhtenberg: And it’s a great goal. And I’m so glad that you said that you eventually, cause that was going to be, my next question was, do you want to take it outside of Texas? And I mean, Texas covering Texas can be a lifetime’s work cause it’s such a big place with such a varied set of, of uh, peoples and cultures.

[00:42:32] And yet I love the notion of, of that, what you said, finding those small businesses, finding those people, who aren’t, the ones trumpeting themselves and giving them a chance to, to shine. I think that’s amazing and wonderful that you’re doing that. And I love the notion. And if you could. What would you go next?

[00:42:53] Evan Stern: Uh, well, I, I have a dream. I would love to drive route 66 from Oklahoma to [00:43:00] California, and I would love to collect stories and oral histories along the way. Um, I think that route 66, so much of why, um, it kind of occupies this mythic status, um, is because of the timing. Um, you know, there were other highways that were built before or after there were larger ones.

[00:43:19] Um, but I think, you know, if you journey route 60, I’ve never done it, but I, I have to think that if you drive route 66, I mean, you were following in the steps of the, the Okies who migrated to California because of the dust bowl and the great depression. Um, it was an incredible artery during world war II.

[00:43:38] So there’s that history as well. Um, then it kind of. You know, in encapsulates that golden age of American travel and in the late forties and fifties, then it was decommissioned. And, you know, there was a lot of abandonment that happened and kind of, what does that say? Um, you know, about the American dream, you [00:44:00] know, it was it, uh, and, and so there’s a lot that I would like to explore and taking that journey, um, beyond that, I would also love to take a trip to Mississippi sometime, uh, something that fascinates me about Mississippi.

[00:44:11] I think, um, the, the writer really Maura said that Mississippi is America’s Ireland. Um, if you look at it, it has produced the most incredible Canon of just literary lions, um, William Fox. Um, Richard Wright, Eudora, Welty. Um, they were all Mississippians and Mississippi continues to produce an incredible writers there.

[00:44:36] There’s a wonderful storytelling tradition attached to Mississippi. Um, and I would love to see, uh, what, what I could get there.

[00:44:47] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love it. I think that’s amazing. First of all, I’d driven along 66 and you will, you will love it. Love it, love it. And, uh, you know, Mississippi and the south in general [00:45:00] has a rich storytelling culture. I have every time I spend time in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, that, that part of the country there, if you, if you set a spell, you will, you will get amazing stories.

[00:45:16] And often you don’t, it doesn’t take a lot of prompting. So I’m I’m you said earlier that, that it’s just about sort of talking to people the way you would talk to them. The, I guess the question is, have you had people who just say Nope, Nope. Not doing it. And if so, what have you done if that particular story is important to you or do you just move on to the next person?

[00:45:38] Oh,

[00:45:38] Evan Stern: absolutely. Well, there, there is. Um, you know, so the. The third episode that you’ll hear in the series. Um, I did at a honky-tonk called arche blue, silver dollar, um, in this town called Bandera, Texas. Um, it’s a fantastic place. Um, again, it was pre pandemic. Um, so, you know, I showed up there unannounced and I really wanted to [00:46:00] talk to, uh, archi blue.

[00:46:01] He’s he’s the owner, he’s in his eighties. He performs there every Saturday night. Um, I thought, you know, th this guy is a legend. I’ve got to talk to him, got to talk to him. He wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. Wouldn’t give me an inch refuse to let me record him. Um, and you know, he was cordial when I talked to him, we’re talking, you know, you’re one word answers, you try everything.

[00:46:24] Um, but what happened is, is, uh, every, I, I talked to everyone. That I could find around him and everybody had a story about archi that they wanted to share and, um, what resulted in. And so his refusal became part of the story itself. Um, but in talking to everyone who knew and loved him and had stories to share about him, you really got a terrific, uh, portrait that wouldn’t have existed.

[00:46:56] Otherwise that that I think is entirely charming. [00:47:00] Um, and when that happened, I had to remind myself that one of my very, very favorite, um, essays of all time, uh, was written by, uh, gates Elise. Um, in 1965, he was given an assignment to interview Frank Sinatra for Esquire magazine and Frank Sinatra completely refused to talk to him.

[00:47:23] Um, but what he ended up doing was he interviewed all the hangers on everyone in his, his entourage. And, uh, to this day, people say that it is the most realistic. Portrait of Frank Sinatra that has ever been captured. Um, and so I would recommend to anyone who finds themselves in that position to think of that story and, you know, maybe read that story, uh, because that’s something that I draw tremendous inspiration from.[00:48:00]

[00:48:03] Izolda Trakhtenberg: It’s so interesting. I have a friend who, uh, who’s a PR expert and she talks about the difference between marketing and PR Gloria, Charles, her name. And she says marketing is when you come to people and you say, Hey, I’m great. But PR is when someone else goes, you know what? That person they’re great. And as long as it’s someone you trust, it weighs more than if the person is trumping again themselves, you know?

[00:48:31] And so there’s something to what you said that kind of reminded me of that, that notion of the other people around Frank Sinatra or, or, or archi, uh, being the ones who tell their tale. And I, I guess I’m wondering within that, I’ve asked you about the wildest, what is the story that has touched you the most?

[00:48:55] The one that made you go, ah, wow. I had no [00:49:00] idea.

[00:49:02] Evan Stern: Well, for me, the, the episode that, that, that has the most personal heart for me, um, is, is the second one. What happened is I went to this dance hall. Um, I, I, I knew that I wanted to do a piece on dance halls. Um, in, in Texas, you know, everyone always talks, always writes about Greenhall or Lukin Bach.

[00:49:27] You know, those are the big dance halls, but there are many, many, many more others out there. And there was one I discovered that I’d never been to called SEF Shaq hall. It’s in this teeny community, um, called Seton, Texas. It’s about eight miles outside of a town called temple. It’s a community of about 40 people.

[00:49:48] And, um, and there’s this old dance hall there called SEF shuck hall. That is pretty much trapped in time. Um, by most accounts, it is now the oldest, [00:50:00] um, family run dance hall in Texas. You know, it’s a family that, that owns it. This family has, has always owned and run it. And, um, I went there and I wanted to talk to its owner, Alice, who is 89 years old.

[00:50:19] Um, and, uh, you know, I had actually called an advanced to ask if I could come and talk to her. She said, sure, well, I got there. And I said, well, I’m here to talk to Alice. And it turned out, you know, that morning she took a fall and they had to take her to the emergency room. Um, and you know, and it kind of, you know, you could feel the way.

[00:50:41] In that situation, you know, what, what happens to this place? Um, you know, without, without Alice here. And I ended up talking to her daughter-in-law and son, um, and you know, they’re, they’re committed to keeping it going. Um, but you could feel like the, you [00:51:00] know, the, you know, I, I feel like that situation kind of infused the episode with, with weight.

[00:51:06] Um, but beyond that, um, you know, I listened to, to what I had initially, and there was something missing. Um, I said to myself, I said, you know, I’m doing a lot of talking here. I’d like to find someone else who could do some, some talking for. Um, and there there’s an association called the Texas dance hall preservation.

[00:51:29] And I found the woman who was working at the time as their executive director, because I wanted to talk to her just to kind of get some more historic perspective on dance halls. You know, I was talking about the history. I think it’s better if someone else can talk about the history, other than me, that actually knows more.

[00:51:45] And, you know, I talked earlier about how, you know, you have those moments where someone just kind of, you know, tells a story or share something that just beautifully illuminates everything. And, um, [00:52:00] I was talking to her and I asked, I said, you know, there are so many causes out there in this world that are, that are worth devoting attention to.

[00:52:09] I said, you know, why are dance halls important to you? And she said it was, it became an incredibly emotional interview that I was not expecting at all. But she said that, you know, those places have a lot of heart and that her fear was that we’re getting away from that as a society. And, you know, she, you know, ends up crying.

[00:52:34] She’s saying, you know, these places, you know, people go there, you know, it’s not just about the fun. It’s, it’s not just about the dancing. Um, it’s about, you know, it’s about cleaning the roof. It’s about cleaning the toilet. And she says, I see so many people working so hard to keep these places going and, you know, and of course it is perfectly illustrated what the shoe lock family, you know, we’re, we’re [00:53:00] doing, you know, the, the, the daughter-in-law the son, you know, they, they work, you know, five days, they do not take days off.

[00:53:07] You know, they have regular jobs that they keep Monday through Friday, and then they’re there on the weekends. And, um, I think that it beautifully exemplified their story. In addition to just about every other person that I talked to in the series as a whole,

[00:53:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: that is beautiful. And I’m so grateful that you shared that, that moment of, of talking to her and also the story of. Dance halls in general or, or anything that we do because we love it. Um, you know, we, we do it because whatever it is, whatever that thing is that you do, because you love it. And particularly these places where one of the things that I think Evan, that, that you’ve highlighted, that I think is so [00:54:00] incredible is that you’ve taken, you’ve highlighted places that aren’t going out for fame.

[00:54:08] You know, these are people and places that are just living, doing their thing and living their lives day in and day out, year in and year out. And they’re not going to be a celebrity. They’re not trying to be world famous for example. And yet you’ve shown the light on them. And I think that’s so it’s powerful because of that, because they’re living their lives and doing something hopefully that they love, like with the dance hall story.

[00:54:35] And they’re not looking for accolades and yet you’ve given them a platform. And I’m so grateful that you’ve

[00:54:43] Evan Stern: done that. Well, I will say it’s not even that. I think a lot of them as well, feel a responsibility to the people who go to these places, you know, like a dive bar, isn’t just a place to grab a beer.

[00:54:58] You know, a dive [00:55:00] bar represents an entire community. Um, you know, a dive bar, a dance hall. These are all places where people go to, to belong. That’s that’s, that’s what, all of the, that’s another through line that I think these places have in common, you know, whether it’s a barbecue joint, a dive bar, a dance hall, people go to these places for community and for places to belong.

[00:55:25] And I think that it’s, it’s, it’s important to highlight that aspect as well.

[00:55:31] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Absolutely. I agree. Yeah. Interestingly because people come and go, like you said, there are a lot of people who, who come to Texas, uh, especially Austin has, has ballooned. Uh, I guess the question that’s come that’s upper. Most of my mind right now is culturally the culture of places changes.

[00:55:54] Right? And so, as the culture evolves, I [00:56:00] know that you’re a lot of what vanishing postcards is about is, is capturing that before it goes away before it’s no longer in its current form. Are there things that you’ve done that have been, uh, sort of in the process of changing or something is over and something new’s coming to take its place?

[00:56:21] And if so, what have those things been?

[00:56:25] Evan Stern: Um, you mean my work or places I’ve been.

[00:56:30] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I guess I’m not asking the question very well. I’m just wondering about culturally, your vanishing postcards project is focused on sort of the smaller, uh, heart, very heartfelt places in people in Texas now and perhaps, and perhaps hopefully someday elsewhere.

[00:56:51] And as, as the culture changes in those places or for those dance halls, have you captured in any of the [00:57:00] episodes that you’ve done? That change taking place? Absolutely.

[00:57:04] Evan Stern: Um, the, the very first place that I went to, um, was a bar called, uh, the, the dry Creek cafe. Um, it’s been there for about 70 years. Um, it, when it first opened in the early 1950s, it really basically sat on the edge of the country.

[00:57:22] Now, not only is it no longer country, um, it’s now pretty much surrounded by mansion’s. Um, it’s now basically it’s this ramshackle dilapidated dive that is surrounded by some of the priciest real estate in all of Texas. Um, but this bar has survived. Um, and I think it’s one of the few places that you can go where you’re reminded that, you know, before the tech, uh, millionaires invaded the Hills, the Hills were actually home to Cedar choppers, which was this, um, Appalachian subculture.

[00:57:55] Um, and, uh, the, the very first person that I interviewed. [00:58:00] In, um, in Texas for the series was angel their bartender. Um, this was a tough day game, you know, raspy voice, you know, just changed smoker, you know, just, just fabulous, you know, just tough as nails, woman. Um, she was incredibly, um, reticent to, uh, to speak with me again, getting her to talk on the record and letting along to record her.

[00:58:28] Um, just took every ounce of charm that I could possibly muster. But when she found out that I was okay with cussing, um, she opened right up. She let the F bombs fly. Um, we had a terrific time, um, and, uh, very sadly I think about, um, four months or so. Um, after I, I interviewed her, she died. Um, what was remarkable about angel is, um, as I said, the place opened in, um, I think it was 1950.

[00:58:59] [00:59:00] Three. Um, she was only the third bartender to ever work there. Wow. Um, and so I’m incredibly grateful that I, you know, captured her, her voice and I have that record of her. Um, but you know, you have to ask, you know, when, when someone like that goes, you know, um, you know, what does that, how does that change a place?

[00:59:22] You know, what does that do? I was actually just back in Austin last week. Um, and I went there to visit the place to, you know, just see if there was some additional footage I could get that would help bring the season two to a close, um, just to kind of see how that change had affected things. Um, and you know, so there, there are analogies, there, there are now like a few bartenders there who are like trading duties and whatnot.

[00:59:48] Um, but I think what’s kind of beautiful is that those who have filled in, you know, were all regulars, who, who knew and loved and cared about the bar. Um, [01:00:00] and, uh, you know, they dedicated a section of the bar to angel where they have, you know, her pictures and some things that she loved. Um, and, um, it was, it was just kind of interesting and reassuring to see, um, how, you know, yes, you know, when a beloved, you know, figured, uh, leaves, it’s hard and it’s challenging.

[01:00:21] Um, but if the community is there. It will come. It will find a way to continue. At least for now. I’m grateful to see that, to know that the dry Creek is still there and that those who love it, um, are doing their part to, uh, to keep it going.

[01:00:38] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I’m so glad to hear that story. That is wonderful. Evan. I want to thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me about this.

[01:00:46] It’s, it’s such an important topic because it isn’t one that, that we tend to focus on. So I’m really grateful that you took the time to tell me about vanishing postcards and to tell me about the culture and the people that you are, [01:01:00] uh, Capturing, if you will, for, for all of us, for all of us to enjoy. And I, and if you’re listening to this, you need to go check out vanishing postcards.

[01:01:08] I’ve listened to a few episodes and it’s fabulous and amazing. Evan. If you wouldn’t mind, I would love it. If you would give whatever social media. Uh, that you have so that if people want to find you, that they can.

[01:01:22] Evan Stern: Absolutely. So the, um, you know, if you search, uh, vanishing postcards on Instagram, uh, you’ll find it there.

[01:01:29] Um, it also has a, a, a, a Facebook page, just search vanishing postcards. It should turn up. Um, you can also find me on Instagram as well. I’m at Evan stern NYC. Um, and, um, you know, I thank you so much and oh, and, but most important, most crucially, um, you know, please go find, listen to subscribe to vanishing postcards.

[01:01:54] Um, since this is a podcast, uh, you know, whatever, you’re listening to this on, I’m quite [01:02:00] confident that you’ll find us there. We’re on apple, we’re on Spotify, we’re on all the, uh, you know, whatever platform is out there. We’re more than likely on, and I’d be most honored if you’d consider giving us a little.

[01:02:12] Izolda Trakhtenberg: Awesome. And I will actually put all of that in the show notes so that if you’re listening to this and you’ve seen the show notes, you’ll be seeing the links to all of it. I just, people learn differently. So I like giving both the audio and the sort of, you can read it visual for it. Uh, Evan, again, I’m really grateful that you took the time to chat with me.

[01:02:32] Me and I, I have one last question, if that’s okay. Of course. It’s a question I ask everybody who comes on the show and it’s a silly question, but I find that it yields some profound results. Yeah. And the question is this, if you could sky write anything for the whole world to see what would you.

[01:02:53] Evan Stern: What would I say for the whole world to see?

[01:02:58] Oh my [01:03:00] goodness. Yeah. So I feel like I need to say something profound, like Buddha or something like that now, or Yoda. My goodness.

[01:03:11] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I’ve had people say, eat your veggies. So it does not have to be,

[01:03:16] Evan Stern: I mean, it is a cliche. Um, I’ve, I’ve heard it many times. Um, but I, I do believe that there is something to be said for the fact that if I were to write this in the sky, I would say luck is the result of preparation meeting opportunity.

[01:03:34] I absolutely believe that to be true. Um, I always do my best to be, uh, you know, prepared and, uh, educate myself and, you know, and, and be ready so that, um, you know, when opportunity comes, you know, luck can, can happen.

[01:03:53] Izolda Trakhtenberg: I love that. I think that’s a great way to end this episode, Evan stern, you are fabulous, and I’m [01:04:00] so glad that you were here.

[01:04:01] Thank you. This is the innovative mindset podcast. You have been listening to my wonderful conversation with Evan stern, who is the host of the vanishing postcards podcast, which of course, you know, you need to check out if you’re liking what you’re hearing, do me a favor, leave a review, let me know comment.

[01:04:20] However you’d like to get in touch. I would appreciate it until next time. This is again, Izolda Trakhtenberg reminding you to listen, learn, laugh, and love a whole lot.

[01:04:36] thanks so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you being here. Please subscribe to the podcast if you’re new and if you like what you’re hearing, please review it and rate it and let other people know. And if you’d like to be a sponsor of the show, I’d love to meet you on patrion.com/innovative mindset.

[01:04:53] I also have lots of exclusive goodies to share just with the show supporters there today’s episode was produced by [01:05:00] Izolda Trakhtenberg and his copyright 2021 as always, please remember, this is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only past performance does not guarantee future results, although we can always hope until next time, keep living in your innovative mindset.

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